vicky 2012/double deluxe or a Z 28 anyone?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by laurencer83, Aug 14, 2005.


  1. laurencer83

    laurencer83 Member

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    i just wanted to know if anyone has had a chance to compare these or if you've played either one? i'm looking for a good fender tweed deluxe type tone. i haven't played any of the vicky's but i have played a couple of Z's amps(RXEs,Kt45) and love them.
     
  2. Laroosco!

    Laroosco! Member

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    I A/Bed my Z28 with a Double Deluxe at the MI tonefest.

    I used them both through the AlNiCo Webers in the Victoria combo.

    They sounded almost identical with the amps dimed

    I love both amps. I would probably pick the Z28 because the tone controls are much more interactive. Since the tone controls act like gain controls as well you can dial in some vvery snappy clean tones that get into Blackface territory

    With my 335 and the amps cranked they were both throwing some badasss Billy G tones at me.
     
  3. Killa-B

    Killa-B Member

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    I've played both amps extensively, and neither is a bad bet in any way.

    The DD is way louder with the GZ34 rectifier tube, and much louder than the Z in this configuration. I agree with the previous post that the Z controls are more "active". I like the clean sound of the DD more, particularly at low to moderate volume.

    Of course the Z has the EF86 preamp section, and there are lots of nice old tubes to give you many cheap flavors. You can land a telefunken ef86 for less than $20 for example.

    Overall, a tough decision. Both will resale pretty well.
     
  4. laurencer83

    laurencer83 Member

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  5. Greg V.

    Greg V. Member

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    I completely dig my Victoria Double Deluxe, wonderful super fat tweed tones and it just "feels" great to play. Plenty loud with the GZ34 in it and even greasier with a 5Y3 if you want to hit the sweet spot at a lower volume.

    The only Doctor Z that I can remember playing was a Route 66 and that was a great sounding amp as well, really dynamic if I recall.
     
  6. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    I have a tweed deluxe with a weber and I find the tone controls to be super variable, probably more so then the Z-28. The Deluxe also increases the gain as you turn up the tone past a certain point, just like the Z. It happens about 2 or 3 o'clock on the tone knob, this is where the gain kicks in and it gets thicker and thicker. Besides that, you have 4 inputs which can be jumpered (if you want to and each input sounds different) and you can put either a 12ay7, 5751 or 12ax7 in the v1 slot. This adjustment alone totally changes the amp. Do not sell this simple topology short, there is a lot of flexability in this simple design.

    I owned a route 66 so I am familiar with the tube layout of the Z-28. I think the Victoria is much more versatile but that's only my opinion. I like the Z stuff, owned quite a few but I've kept this Victoria longer then any of the Z's Ive owned. It weighs 30 pounds (maybe) can put out a great sound at a reasonable volume and is built well. My only knock would be it does't sound like a blackface amp, but either do the Z's.
     
  7. laurencer83

    laurencer83 Member

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    are the bf deluxes less midrangey? i'm new to fender amps as i've played mostly marshalls, oranges, and hiwatts. but i really want a good fender for recording and i'm trying to decide between a tweed type or a black face type.

    thanks again for the replies. keep em coming.
     
  8. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    Blackface by nature are less midrange based then the tweed amplifiers. You can make a tweed Bassman sound pretty close to a blackface but not quite. I generally think of a blackface amp as being more high fidelity and the tweed stuff as more organic. Blackface amps generally do not sound good distorted, the circuit topology just isn't made for it. Leo designed with the intent of having an amp that would stay clean and did not like the idea of distortion, after all he was kind of a country guy. Tweed amps tend to sound good when they distort. All early Marshall amps are essentially tweed Bassman clones with some changes. Tweed amps tend to have more hair on the note, wher blackface amps give you the note without a bunch of stuff hanging off it. I use this analogy, Tweed is a peach, soft to the touch, kind of fuzzy and juicy when you bite into it. Blackface is an apple, Smooth exterior, glassy looking, when you bite in crisp and clean and not as juicy.

    I wouldn't get a deluxe reverb reissue, these amps are nothing like the real thing, personally I think they suck. For the money, you would better off getting a silver face deluxe, the circuitry didn't change as much as the Twins and Super reverbs and they cost a lot less money then the blackface deluxes. Other good amps (blackface style) are Carr Rambler, Tone King amps (I modded mine, I put a bright switch in and I think they sound awesome), and I also believe Allen makes good blackface knock off's but this is only review reading. I'm sure more people will chime in with recommendations but a blackface amp has a particular sound and people who say it's like a blackface with less high end or something else generally have an amp that is really not true to the blackface design intent. For example, because Mesa (could be anybody) say's their circuit gives you the blackface sound don't take their word for it, A/B it against the real thing.
     
  9. laurencer83

    laurencer83 Member

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    thanks for that detailed reply. that really helps me out. can i ask a question about the black face twins? do they overdrive at higher volumes or do they pretty much stay clean? because i'm thinking that a good combo would be a black face twin for the louder cleans and a vicky deluxe for overdrive at lower volumes.
     
  10. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    Blackface twins stay clean pretty much all the way up. I owned one for 15 years so I think I would have some idea. I never played mine above 4 live and the loudest I ever had it was 7 and I had to stand on the other side of the room, a very good amp if you want to lose your hearing in a hurry. That combo would be very good, I would probably put a 12ax7 in the deluxe to make it break up quicker for your leads, a 12ay7 will want to stay cleaner.

    The tweed deluxe is cathode biased so the amp will tend to sound more spongy and the notes will have some bloom to them (after there hit of course). It would be a poor choice for speed metal, the response time wouldn't be there like a fixed bias amp. If you want singing leads the tweed cathode biased amps are real nice. When you switch back to clean after the singing leads you'll have that tight percussive snap and quick transients of the fixed bias blackface amps. I forgot to mention something very important, tweed amps usually use alnico speakers and blackface amps use ceramic. Ceramic speakers will sound tighter and have better control over the bass, alnico speaker IMHO have more musicality/complexity and sound better in tweed amps.

    What you are doing is typical of a lot of tone freaks, blackface clean, tweed or Marshall for distortion, if it works for Eric Johnson it probably has a lot of merit.
    I would do it but I just cringe at the idea of hauling all that stuff, guess I'm lazy that way.
     
  11. Killa-B

    Killa-B Member

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    One of my all time favorite tones is a multi amp setup with a tight clean amp (BF twin) and a spongy thick distorted amp (tweed deluxe) used simultaneously with an A/B/Y box. No single amp can complete with 2 for my tastes.
     
  12. ROKY

    ROKY Member

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    Vicky Double Deluxe gets my vote; that's a great amp .:cool:
     
  13. laurencer83

    laurencer83 Member

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    the guy from victoria amps told me ronnie wood uses a double deluxe and a 35210 and keith uses the vicky twin(both models).

    i've been looking at the tone king stuff and it looks pretty snazzy. but i'll stick to the regular fender for now unless i actually get to play a tone king. but that's unlikely because there aren't many around indy.
     
  14. ROKY

    ROKY Member

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    The Tone Kings are excellent also, and do give you the BF and Tweed tones is one package .
     
  15. laurencer83

    laurencer83 Member

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    but are the vicky's close replicas of the original tweed designs?
     
  16. ROKY

    ROKY Member

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    Yes ..
     
  17. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    I think you would be very, very happy with any Victoria tweed amp. The worst thing about these amps IMHO is the Jensen reissue speakers. I had a bassman with mojo tones in it and it sounded way better then any of the newer ones with the Jensens. Ask Jeffnmoe, he bought it from me. Great amp but I barely ever crank my deluxe so the bassman was just to much horsepower.
     
  18. Killa-B

    Killa-B Member

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    More than just close. I've heard they source the copper wire that is used for transformer windings from the same factory that produced it for Fender in the 50's. I believe they have some other custom made componentry.

    Some of their new amps are really cool also. I have a victorilux, which is kinda like a mix of blackface and tweed sounds. Great scooped clean tones like the BF, but with more warmth and more desireable breakup tones. It is a cathode biased amp.
     
  19. The Whiz

    The Whiz Member

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  20. Boogie92801

    Boogie92801 Member

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    Before you buy, just for informational reasons, try a matchless lightning.

    I really wanted a delux reveb and was serriously looking at some vintage ones then someone said try a a Maz Jr. While I was checking out the Maz I tried a Z-28... Then I played a lightinng.

    It had attitude.
     

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