Victoria 50212 questions

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by fjs1962, Jan 20, 2006.


  1. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    I just picked up a nice Victoria 50212 (thanks Sam!) and I'm looking for input from any Tweed Twin owners out there. What are your favorite settings, tubes, speakers, etc. for these amps?

    This one has the Jensen C12N reissue speakers and I'm thinking either the Jensen alnicos (P12N or P12Q) or the Weber equivalents would sound better. What do you guys like and why?
     
  2. Jim Collins

    Jim Collins Member

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    I'm on a similar quest, myself, for my own Vickie 50212. I'll tell you what I've used, and what I thought about them.

    Initially, mine had Celestion V30s. They were horrible, in that amp. Bright and shrill. (I bought the amp used, several years ago. At the time, Celestion speakers were a factory upgrade. The original owner requested them.)

    Then, I tried Mojo speakers, the same ones that were stock in that amp, at that time. (I don't think Mojos are stock, now.) They were all right. Nothing special, but not bad.

    I tried a pair of Weber P12NT speakers. The cone cry was awful. I even doped the surrounds, but it had virtually no effect on the cone cry. Cone cry aside, the speakers actually sounded pretty good, except they were a little bit on the dark side. If it weren't for the cone cry, I might have learned to like them.

    I also tried some Weber C12N speakers. They, also were too dark, and had all kinds of cone cry. (These surrounds were not doped. I didn't like the speakers well enough to try doping them.)

    Currently, I have a pair of Reverend Alltone 1250 speakers in it. I've used these speakers in several amps, both 2x12 and 1x12. I really like the Reverends in a 1x12 combo, but I've finally decided I don't like them in 2x12 combos. The speaker is pretty clean and loud, with a good bottom end. My 1x12 amps are 6V6 critters -- a Victoria Deluxe and an Allen Accomplice. The clean, loud speaker mates very well with these amps, because the breakup I hear is amp breakup, not speaker breakup. The net result is a surprisingly loud sounding 6V6 amp.

    To me the Reverends are too loud and clean to be used in 2x12 combos. For the Vickie 50212 (and my other 2x12 amp that had a pair of Reverends), the only way these speakers sound good is when the amp is VERY loud, which is too loud for me. I'm looking for a pair of speakers that will break up earlier, and do not have as big a bottom end as these speakers have.
     
  3. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the reply! That helps a lot. I see that the stock speakers coming in the 50212s now are the Jensen P12Q, so I may try a set of them since they are so cheap ($70 or so each). Back when I was messing around with reissue Fender amps I didn't care for the C12N reissues and replaced them with the Reverends and liked the results. At the same time I can see where they would be too eficient in a Tweed Twin, as I really want to get more response from the speakers than what the stock Jensen C12Ns have. I've had a couple of Webers in the past (C12N (doped) and Cali 12s and liked them better than the Jensens, but I definitely don't want to have to deal with a bunch of cone cry. I've guessing something like a P12Q would be a nice match for a 40 watt Tweed, enough to handle the power but soft enough to give a bit and compress when pushed.
     
  4. 57special

    57special Member

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    I really like the Weber P12Q (12A125) as a speaker. Two of them should be able to handle the LoPo twin. They don't have lots of bass, but have a sweet high end , and a nice OD tone. I'm not crazy about P12N's in general, even originals, i'd rather have a C12N.
     
  5. McCauley

    McCauley Member

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    I was at Savage amps in MN. about a year ago and a guy came in with an original so we played around with for quite a while. He let me and my son-in-law take it for a ride and we both agreed it was one of the nicest amps we had ever played through. I looked at the back and it had original jensen P12Q's in it, one was reconed. We hooked it up to some g12h30's and the amp lost all of it's character, it just sounded hard and buzzy. I'd say some P12Q's might be a good choice, straight cone or ribbed. I think the problem with some of todays speakers is they are to efficient and don't allow the amp to work as hard to get that bounce. Just my opinion.
    Mike
     
  6. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    It's starting to look like I need one of the Weber 12A125 speakers. I guess the question is which one? I looked and they have 4 different cones, then there's the 20 vs 30 watt, and how much doping?
     
  7. illinimax

    illinimax Gold Supporting Member

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    I'd go 30w light doping. That amp can rip pretty good. None of the Webers I've had the last few years have any cone cry, but I like a little doping just to tame things a bit.
     
  8. davebc

    davebc Member

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    I've owned both the Vic high and low power Twins for about the last 6-7 years. I'm still blown away every time I plug in; and I'm still discovering new tones all the time. I've got a pretty good arsenal of the amps for realative perspective, a mid 90's Matchless DC-30, Lightning 15, an old 69' 50 watt Marshall, Vibro-King, Dual-Professionals, and Tone-Master, just to name a few.The Vics will stand toe to to with anything. Here's what working for me.

    Tubes: All nos in these amps, ya gotta do it, you will hear and feel the difference.Try the
    Philips 6L6's, for the dough ya can't bet em, (have a few sets of Tung Sol which I haven't tried yet)
    Pre amp tubes: RCA Command Series 5751's, imo best choice in this amp, in conjuction with any great nos 12ax7, every one has sounded amazing, the RCA's, GE's, Mullards,Tung Sols.
    It's critical that you use a great rectifier tube.
    I've experenced the best tone/feel from the Mullard GZ 34, even over the Amperex.
    Settings: Want a righteous experience? Plug your favorite Les Paul straight in, crank the amp to 10, run the treble at 9-10, bass to taste, and dig in.
    Creamin and screamin!
    If you can't play that loud, experiment w/ your favorite pedal.
    My Vics came loaded with the p12n's, a complete sugar factory when backed off or set clean, crank them up and look out.
    Close your eyes, dig in, and go away.
     
  9. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    OK, I've talked to Weber and he recommended the 12A125-A. Then I talked to the folks at Victoria and they recommend the speaker the 50212 currently ships with, the Jensen P12Q RI. The Jensens are $60 cheaper but the Webers DO come with the bell covers. Which do you guys prefer between the two, the Weber or the Jensen RI?

    On another note The folks at Victoria said they really like the Tung Sol 5881 RI tubes in the 50212, so I'm going to order a set to try.
     
  10. pedalcr8z

    pedalcr8z Member

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    I am using a Vic 5112 which has a P12Q from the factory. Something to ponder is the fact that they are the designers and have chosen the best speaker and tubes for the sound they were after as I was told by them. I talked to the factory and they bluntly told me that they feel that the supplied 6v6 was a JJ produced and Groove Tube labelled tube and sounded better than every other brand of 6v6 they tried....period, inc. NOS. Groove Tube "weeds out" the average JJ's as they scope each indivudual tube which JJ does not. They also felt I should leave the speaker stock . I see so many people buy a high end amp and by the time they are done swapping out tubes and speakers, most of the time the amp ends up sounding so totally unlike the original amp that they bought and they end up with an amp that has no character or signature of its own. In other words don't buy a Vox and try to make it sound like a Marshal......just buy the Marshal to begin with if that's the sound you are going for!
    Vics are the tone monsters that they are AS THEY ARE.....leave it alone!:RoCkIn
     
  11. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    I can relate to all of that, but realize I'm not trying to turn my Vicky into something else. I'm just trying to update it to the current specs, which (according to the folks at Victoria) are closer to the orriginal amp the 50212 copies. When my amp was made in 1999 they didn't have a reissue P12Q, so they had to use the C12N, and no one was making a reissue of the Tungsol 5881 tube like they are now. I'm just trying to make the amp sound the best that it can for what it is.
     
  12. bluesbreaker59

    bluesbreaker59 Silver Supporting Member

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    Tung Sol is not making a 5881.

    The name was purchased by New Sensor.
     
  13. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    Sorry, I should have said no one was making a Tungsol 5881 reissue like they are now. I've edited my post for accuracy :)

    Everyone I've talked to who has tried the tube has told me it's very good, very close to the original.
     
  14. sideman

    sideman Member

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    Two points. First, I went through this "how to tube and speaker a Vic" routine with an early Vic Bassman five years ago. Spent alot of time on the boards, consulting, trying different stuff. The amp eventually sounded best when I followed the advice of Mike Baier (at Victoria Amp) and put in Tung Sols and other NOS tubes along with Jensen RI P10Rs. I was very happy with the amp. Second, to my mind you gotta have AlNiCos in a tweed amp. The only reason why I'd hesitate to lay in Jensen RI P12Qs or P12Ns was if I was willing to spring for a pair of vintage Jensen P12Ns. A guy in my band picked up an original lo-power Twin ('55 I think) without speakers. He bought a pair of vintage P12Ns off ebay from a shop that had pulled them from a Hammond organ. They sound fantastic. And a year and many gigs later, they are running strong.
     
  15. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    That's what I'm thinking, the same Jensen P12Q reissues that they currently put in the 50212. The ceramic C12Ns they were putting in when my amp was built in 99 don't sound bad, they just don't sound like I expect a 50's Tweed amp to sound. The only reason I was thinking of going with Weber's version of the P12Q is that I've heard they are closer to the old 50s Jensens than the RI Jensens are, and the Webersa aren't much more expensive (about $30 per speaker more). DId you ever try Webers in your Bassman?
     
  16. Doug's Tubes

    Doug's Tubes Member

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    My suggestion would be to hunt down a vintage set of Jensen P12Q's, they make all the difference in the world. I have the Tung Sol reissue 5881's in my '57 Twin, and I can't tell the difference. Beats buying some ebay special baby rattlers.
     
  17. KLB

    KLB Member

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    Can't tell the difference between what and what?

    Just trying to follow your post. :)
     
  18. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    I think he's comparing the reissue Tung Sol tubes to the originals.

    By the way, I put some of the Tung Sol reissues in my 50212 and they sound amazing in the amp!
     
  19. KLB

    KLB Member

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    Thanks. After visiting his tube site, I discovered that's what he meant.

    I'm playing around with some original Tung-Sol 5881 in a Germino Club 40 combo, driving a 16 ohm Cannabis Rex.

    They sound great whether the impedence selector is set for 8 or 16 ohms. The 8 ohm setting reflects a 6.8K load, which is about what a JTM-45 would give. It has a little less output and a bit more compression.

    Also, I am using a 5R4 rectifier, which results in 399v on the plates at a 35ma bias setting.

    I have concluded that the TS5881 sounds better than the Shuguang/TAD 6L6WGC, which I used to think was better in this amp.

    I need to check out the TS 5881 reissue!
     
  20. fjs1962

    fjs1962 Silver Supporting Member

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    I havn't tried the TADs yet but I've heard good things about them too. At the same time I've had a couple of people tell me they liked the TAD 6L6WGC but then liked the RI 5881 even better. It's great that we have decent new production tubes these days!
     

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