vintage fender market?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by JubileeMan 2555, Jun 23, 2006.


  1. JubileeMan 2555

    JubileeMan 2555 Member

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    Just wondering if any of you guys have noticed something that I have...

    over the past few years, I've noticed my local hot-spot music stores are getting more and more vintage fenders...and not selling them. Right now my local store has roughly TWO of EVERY blackface fender from the 60's. And some, like bandmasters, have 4-6. This is a small store. One that doesn't have a huge amount of floor space. What this makes is for a freaking forest of vintage Fenders.

    I've kept my eye on it and it seems like no one's buying. their prices are really decent... all the amp are in good shape, with a few being in the mint catagory. and Yet, no one is buying.

    Is it possible that because of the huge influx of great guitar makers and such that vintage fenders are not as sought after anymore? Not that no one loves them, but do you think this might be a sign that some of the blackface fender $$ values might drop in the future? I just can't imagin the supply and demand is there to justify the prices if a store can carry 3 supers, 2 vibroluxes, 6 bandmasters....and no ones buying.

    I'm sure some of you will just dismiss this as simple market flux. but I can't help but notice the rather alarming amount of fenders in ALL the stores..not just this one.
     
  2. MoRawk

    MoRawk Member

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    Hehe...which store is that? If they have a couple of stale BFPR's there, I might be able to score a decent deal heh. Been looking for a nice original one.
     
  3. JubileeMan 2555

    JubileeMan 2555 Member

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    to be honest I can't remember if they are princeton reverbs...or just princetons... but you could ask

    ...Twin Town. Give them a ring if you'd like:

    612.822.3334
     
  4. MoRawk

    MoRawk Member

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    Cool! Thanks a bunch!
     
  5. 1964

    1964 Member

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    I have noticed that the eBay market has pegged back a little on some models. The blackface and silverface Champs that had risen in price quite dramatically seem to have dropped quite a lot. Maybe the escalation in prices has brought a flood of them to market, and in the case of some real world stores, they've ended up caught with unusually high stocks. The keen prices on used boutique offerings may also be affecting demand for some vintage models, and some of the boutique makers now have keen new prices, most notably Li’l Dawg, but also the likes of Clark.
     
  6. clunk

    clunk Member

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    I agree i think the prices have reached a peak. For now anyway. I remember in 99-2000 there were a pile of vintage fenders on ebay that would be literally bargains at todays prices. I do agree with you too jubilee that even now the prices are still reasonable. I guess demand just isnt as high on them at the moment. I'd give it another 5 years and watch as they go up yet again. i really cant see them coming down in price. Mabe temporarily over the next year or two, but i doubt it will be for much less than what the prices are today. Really it's hard to say.

    Clunk
     
  7. 1964

    1964 Member

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    Whenever I've looked at the silverface Princeton prices on eBay they seemed relatively high and remain so.

    Working chassis also seem to fetch good money, despite the fact that cabs and speakers aren't cheap, and no matter how good the result, it's always going to be a project amp.

    However, I do see the attraction of these chassis, not least as an economical means of getting a hand-wired amp, but also in regards that I think combos are less popular than they were, and the opportunity to get a chassis from a combo at a good price and end up with a head is increasingly attractive.
     
  8. 908SSP

    908SSP Member

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    The stock market is down. People are worried about the price of gas. Interest rates are going up. Not unusual for a little fall in prices. If things get straightened out prices will pick back up if they don't you can't eat an amp.
     
  9. 1964

    1964 Member

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    ...Good points.
     
  10. TheGuildedAge

    TheGuildedAge Supporting Member

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    I am no analyst, but how high can the market go. I have had three 60's Fenders, and sold two. My 65 super and 66 pro both went for over $1300. the blue book's say they are worth more, but I certaibnly wouldn't pay more than that for an amp so old. I can get the same sound in something newer.

    But my thinking was if I want that sound, why not buy a newer, boutique amp for the same price or cheaper, knowing it's new, handwired, and shouldn't need anything replaced for a long time. THD, Carr, Germino, Valvetech, Fargen, etc. etc, are all making great amps.

    I know Fender's are well built, but at what point will people stop wanting to pay a premium an amp that's 60 years old.
     
  11. Jon Silberman

    Jon Silberman 10Q Jerry & Dickey Gold Supporting Member

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    The price on Stradivariuses (Stadivarii?!) is certain to drop soon. I know they're well built, but at what point will people stop wanting to pay a premium for a violin that's 300+ years old?

    ...

    Yes, I know it's an imperfect analogy but perhaps not as far-fetched as you might believe (there's an article on point in the Vintage Guitar mag that, referencing Stradivarouses, makes the same point).
     
  12. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    I think the more vintage ones around for people to play, the more they see that new ones sound as good or better than the old ones, and its all a myth. (Vintage is better) Same with marshall, Vox etc etc etc. However, there will always be guys who listen with their eyes, and who believe in UFOs. :rotflmao :p
     
  13. JubileeMan 2555

    JubileeMan 2555 Member

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    one thing to point out is that a stradavarious or even a 66 plexi are really rare amps and are hard to find. This makes the value go up and up...

    ...but Leo made thousand upon thousands of all of his amps. They're everywhere. At no point do you talk to anyone that has any difficulty finding a decent version of any of his blackface amps (well..perhaps the vibroverb a little bit). This means there are so many that they simply can't hold their value.

    I honestly predict that within the next 5 years, fender amps will be at their peak and may even drop depending on how many private owners dump their collections.
     
  14. Tuberattler

    Tuberattler Member

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    I have both Old Fenders and boutique amps. No matter how many cool new amps come around they still DO NOT sound the same as the OLD ones.

    If you want the sound & feel of a Vintage Fender you've basically got to get a Vintage Fender, however if you want something that is close to that sound & feel new ones can do that very nicely.

    Just like anything else that has both athstetic, function and desirability and scarecity clones and factsimilies will be made but there are always those who will buy the real McCoy at a premium. There are many markets similar to this.

    Yes, one day they should level off to a relative market value but until that day comes they still will comand a pretty penny.
     
  15. Flyin' Brian

    Flyin' Brian Member

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    The Headstrong clones are awfully good amps as well. I'm sure that affects the market.
     
  16. Jon Silberman

    Jon Silberman 10Q Jerry & Dickey Gold Supporting Member

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    There are many reasons for wanting a vintage or antique anything, only one of which is performance, e.g., if performance were the only or even primary criterion, an 1896 Benz would be worth pennies.

    That being said, the tone of a BF Fender is, to many of us, heavenly (even if I agree with Tag that Brunos sound darn good, too :eek: ).
     
  17. Jon Silberman

    Jon Silberman 10Q Jerry & Dickey Gold Supporting Member

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    Some interesting data to factor into the analysis. According to the article, Finding the Future, in the August 2006 Vintage Guitar mag (talking about guitars but the numbers are relevant to amps, too):

    "[T]he 'Babyboomer Dropout Theory" ... says that as many babyboomers lose interest in collectible guitars, market values will drop as demand falls. But one must consider that the demand for collectible guitars is tied not to the babyboomer generation but to the cultural acceptance of guitar music which today is at an all-time high, as demonstrated by the estimated 3 million new guitars sold in '05. The peak year for babyboomer purchases was 1965, when 1.5 million units were sold. So, the guitar is more popular now than it was at the peak of the '60's guitar boom. Among today's millions of new buyers, there will likely be hundreds of thousands who will become and remain passionate about guitars throughout their lives, and a respectible percentage of those will pass on their love on the instrument along to their children."

    Personally, I'm strongly in the camp that if you want to ensure you get at least what you paid for your amp back for it whenever you sell it, make it a BF Fender.
     
  18. seafoamer

    seafoamer Member

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    My guess is that it has more to do with the specific models. I have doubts that reasonally priced Princeton Reverbs, Deluxe Reverbs, & Pro Reverbs are sitting around long, anywhere.
     
  19. JubileeMan 2555

    JubileeMan 2555 Member

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    maybe...but as I said, they have 2 "holy grail" vibrolux reverbs sitting at market value for months now.
     
  20. TheGuildedAge

    TheGuildedAge Supporting Member

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    Some interesting points. I think what I am arguing is that at some point, the market has to tail off. What I liked about my old Fenders is I either made money or broke even selling all of them. Take my Pro Reverb. It was a 66, all original, practically showroom condition. But who on earth would give me close to two grand for it when you can buy two or three amps that sound just as great for that kind of money.

    I think some people have to have the name, and are blinded by that. Of course, my 65 Super Reverb I sold was THE best sounding amp I ever heard, so there goes that theory! I just think it's a fun debate.

    For me it is usually tone. I liked my Pro because it was a 1966 Fender amp, it was neat to own a piece of history. But the truth is, my 2004 Fargen sounds better to my ears, will need less maintainence and worrying, so for me it was a good time to sell the Pro.

    To each his own. But I think a lot of these things are status symbols. I saw a kid the other day who had to have a Marshall full stack. Didn't care it was too loud, or not needed for clubs, or built like crap. Didn't matter he could get a better built amp from a smaller company for less. All that mattered was it said Marshall.
     

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