1. The Rules have been updated regarding posting as a business on TGP. Thread with details here: Thread Here
    Dismiss Notice

Vintage is 30 years old, now Pre1989

Discussion in '"Vintage" Instruments' started by Oatie, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. Oatie

    Oatie Member

    Messages:
    2,199
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Any gear made in 1988 or older will be considered vintage now.
    Any gear made in 1998 or older will be considered Classic now.
    And Antiques are 100 years old.

    Many don't consider a Norlin made guitar to be collectable. Or a PCB Marshall amp.

    The big question is, will Gibson ever stop making the Les Paul and come up with a new body style?
     
  2. nmiller

    nmiller Drowning in lap steels Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,954
    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Location:
    Rocky Hill, CT
    There was a lengthy thread on how to define "vintage" when this sub-forum was created. The only consensus was that there is no consensus.

    You mean like the N-225, the Vegas, the 336/339, the Johnny A, the M-III, the Nighthawk, the Modern Double Cut, and all the other recent body styles that nobody has bought?
     
  3. Oatie

    Oatie Member

    Messages:
    2,199
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Exactly, is it lack of marketing?
    The quality is so good they do last a lifetime if looked after.
     
  4. nmiller

    nmiller Drowning in lap steels Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,954
    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Location:
    Rocky Hill, CT
    No, most people just don't want something new - they want the classics.
     
  5. treeofpain

    treeofpain Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,384
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    There was certainly a consensus on what "vintage meant when the "vintage guitar market" started. Of course that was decades ago, and subsequent generations have redefined it as they have seen fit.
     
  6. sws1

    sws1 Member

    Messages:
    8,774
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Location:
    East of the west
    ...if you're referring to Charvel, ESP, and / or PRS, perhaps.
     
  7. CharAznable

    CharAznable Member

    Messages:
    14,377
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Location:
    Leesburg, VA
    Crap guitars don't magically become good after 30 years
     
  8. Jayyj

    Jayyj Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,910
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Any thread making a statement about what the definition of vintage is is pretty much guaranteed to run 20 pages of increasingly ill tempered bickering, so let's skate over that one!

    People collect Norlins, absolutely. They're not for everyone, but lots of people like them.

    Bottom line is, for most people the blueprint electric guitar was perfected in the 50s. Those were the designs that fuelled the golden era of electric guitar music and, even if you're like me and you weren't around in the 60s and 70s, the guitars that were used by the musicians my generation were into were largely 50s or 60s designs. If you look at young bands like Wolf Alice or Tame Impala, they're still playing the same old designs. There have been plenty of guitars since that pushed the envelope but how many gigs have you been to recently where the guitarist was playing a Steinberger or a Parker Fly?

    It applies to most instruments. The violin was pretty much nailed down by 1720, the only change that made any impact was when people realised they could get a bit more volume by renecking their Strads and Guarneris. There were many incredible violins made in the 19th Century - makers such as Staufer and Chanot - that attempted to take the violin beyond the version that came out of Northern Italy a century before but none of the ideas stuck.
     
    mxk116 and Chrome Dinette like this.
  9. sidekick

    sidekick Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,420
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    My home
    While I think Gibson have 'tweaked' the Les Paul in some ways, (Chambered Reissues, etc.,) it's all about marketing ... No reason to change because the Les Paul is considered an iconic instrument. ... As for me, the interpretation of 'vintage' in terms of quality, (as time goes on) is subjective ... Most guitar enthusiast who have done their research will know what are considered the classic 50's/early 60's era with Gibson electrics, and thereafter with times, (like say) early 80's CS models and certain regarded periods relative to post 90's, (and beyond) CS/historic models ...
     
  10. kimock

    kimock Member

    Messages:
    12,442
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Location:
    Where the Palm Tree meets the Pine
    1958, 1988, same thing. .
     
    Tommy Biggs likes this.
  11. mvsr990

    mvsr990 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,265
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    They mostly flop if they do - the thing about the core Fender/Gibson bodies is that they're pretty well sorted ergonomically. Someone like Reverend has been successful redefining those ergonomics to some extent but they still fundamentally look like the classics.
     
    Hired Goon likes this.
  12. TheDropout

    TheDropout Member

    Messages:
    1,132
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Location:
    midwest
    i have a car from the 80's that qualified for antique insurance through state farm
     
    Guitarworks and Drew816 like this.
  13. cap10kirk

    cap10kirk Member

    Messages:
    5,405
    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Location:
    Southwest VA
    They did, in the early 60's. It was called the SG, and it stuck around for a little while.
     
    pressure, shane88, jens5 and 2 others like this.
  14. Drew816

    Drew816 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,216
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Location:
    Ohio
    No, they become “vintage crap.” :beer

    No consensus on what’s vintage or not but these qualify in my book. And yes, if they suck they still suck regardless of their age. But there are lots of great candidates for awesome instruments from this era too...

    Cars become vintage at 25 years, just saying....

    Happy New Year!
     
  15. Guitarworks

    Guitarworks Member

    Messages:
    7,976
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Well, time marches on. I see lots of 20 yr old gear being sold as "vintage", so that appears to be the cutoff for how old something has to be to earn the label. I suppose one could say something made in 1988 'feels' more vintage or gives off an 'older' vibe than something made in 1998, which it very well might. But a PCB Marshall amp will be, or is, collectable to someone. There will be interest in them because that particular model has been discontinued for some time. Likewise, lots of people go nuts for 70s Norlin Gibsons. The trick is getting in when there is less interest than more; once the secret gets out that someone successful and/or famous uses that previously forsaken piece of gear, it's suddenly gold. Some gear is known to be good quality and good-sounding from the get-go, and there can still be such little interest in it due to some other dominant fad or other flavor-du-jour that the company decides the product is a not a great seller and discontinues it. That's good news for those who still happen to have one.

    People still like, collect and drive up the price of Japanese 60s/70s Teiscos that used to be seen as nothing short of being fit for a landfill back in the 80s and 90s. And being that there is solid redemption for those, then this means pretty much everything mass-produced will be collectable, especially if the brand or particular model been discontinued for 20 or 30 years. That is, after all, the main impetus for collecting - the fact that you can't get a current new one, or you can't get a new one that is made to the same specs using the same materials, parts, QC, or methods of manufacture that were previously used before a change occurred.
     
    Jayyj likes this.
  16. Guitarworks

    Guitarworks Member

    Messages:
    7,976
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Yup. I don't doubt that. Guitars from the 50s and 60 should probably be labeled "antique" as well.
     
  17. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    15,017
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Location:
    North Carolina
    The term Vintage sure can be applied to equipment 30 years or older.
    The mistake people make is in thinking that Vintage automatically
    implies great - collectable - and firstly 'valuable'.

    Haven't you folks watched the Antique Road Show? That is exactly how
    you sort through Vintage. Plenty of people walking in with some knick knack
    from the 1800s thinking they are going to 'score' - only to be told no one
    wants it. Conversely there are few who come in with something that has
    been sitting in the Attic since Great Great Grandpa died - and it's been there
    because it's ugly and ridiculous - and in 20 seconds they find out they have
    a one of kind Jorka Whacka built by the great Zandini just before he died
    and it's worth 12 million dollars.

    It's pretty simple - with musical gear vintage is basically what the market
    will bear economics. On TGP periodically we get the poster who will pull
    a Reverb add with a $5000 Fuzz box that normally on it's best day will
    sell for $100. It matters little what the price of the box is - the guy will either
    find a buyer or adjust his price. That is market will bear economics.

    And aside from the 1950s and some of the 1960s where vintage gear has
    established a baseline price for most things (through repeated sells) most
    music gear from the 1970s onward IMO will never achieve the top of the mountain
    pricing of the 1950s and 1960s. As we move into the 90s and 00s - 99%
    of that gear will never achieve anything beyond the minimum - until everyone
    starts dumpstering the crap they don't want - only then junk will become valuable
    through rarity.
     
    William Bohensky likes this.
  18. Mr Fingers

    Mr Fingers Member

    Messages:
    954
    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Wow! Great news! I thought that the 1987 '61 reissue Les Paul/SG Custom I just bought was a "used" guitar. Overnight, it has become a "vintage" treasure! Funny... it doesn't look any different...
     
  19. murkat

    murkat I like sea otters Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,367
    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Location:
    NTlGuitar.com, Nashville, Tn.
    A. Nope
    B. Everytime they do (recently), Fail.
     
  20. Dave M

    Dave M Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,174
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Location:
    somewhere near Seattle
    According to whose opinion?
     

Share This Page