Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by popsongsmith, Feb 4, 2008.
why should I spend the extra $125 on the Pedal Power?
Hopefully someone lets you know! I couldn't figure out why and bought a one-spot which has been fantastic.
If you can get by with the cheaper option, why not? I wouldn't get something like the PP2+ if I didn't need it. If you have pedals that don't like being daisy-chained (gives off hum when powered from a single source), require different voltages or otherwise can not be daisy-chained (positive ground fuzz pedals etc), the PP2+ will provide eight separate power sources. This will let you isolate individual pedals, so they think they are alone, just like if they were on battery power.
But once again, if you don't have any problems running all your pedals off a single source, then you don't. Only you can decide wether or not you need a power supply like the PP2+.
I did a search, and found some threads on the Godlyke v. Pedal Power. I guess the Godlyke is similar.
In any case, I'm going right to the source(s). I'm going to email both companies and ask the same question. I'll check back with the replies ; ^ ]
I have the OneSpot. It's a daisy chain and works OK for my uses. Supposedly, they can get noisy with certain configurations and cause problems with certain pedals. I have talked to at least 3 small builders that don't like it and don't recommend it. I still use it though and it's been great.
The PP2 has isolated outputs which will be quiet. Until you have a problem I'd just get the OneSpot. I do a wah, tuner, Eternity, boost and delay off mine.
The only problem with the OneSPots are once you start using more that 1 Line 6 pedal, you can start hearing a buzz, or there have been a couple of cases with the boss dd-20 where Boss used a cheap resistor and it'll blow the pedal (not on all of them just a few). I use it to power 90% of my board and it works just fine. Its powering 10 pedals with no noise/hum
Thanks y'all for the input. Here's the reply from Visual Sound to the question, "why should I spend an additional $125 on a PPII?"
Interesting facts about the PPII.
There are other power supplies that look like they have isolated outputs but
do not. The DC Brick and the T-Rex Sound Tank are called "common ground"
power supplies. This is techno-speak for daisy chain.
It's not magic.You can buy the exact parts to make a PPII for $50 or so. You
can even find the schematics on the internet for free.
BBE has a new power supply out that is a direct clone of the PPII and it's
about $25 cheaper.
"Do I really need to spend $170 on a PPII?"
Answer: Not really. There are only 2 reasons that some one MIGHT have use
for a PPII.
1) You have a pedal with that has bad power filtering.
These pedals will add noise to your signal chain if they share a power
supply with other pedals. There are several that we are aware of. All Line6
Tone Cores, the E-H Holy Grail and some Zoom products. (The Line6 DL4, MM4
and DM4 do not have this problem.)
The Tone Cores add hiss, the Holy Grail and Zoom will whine due to their
digital circuit. The companies know about this problem. They can fix the
problem for less than $1 per pedal. Neither company seems interested in
fixing their products. Line 6 actually tells their customer to purchase
multiply power supplies, of course Line 6 power supplies are recommended.
2) You have a pedal with Germanium PNP reverse polarity transistors. These
are usually in fuzz pedals like the Fultone '69 or the original Fuzz Face,
but I did run across one boutique boost pedal that used them.
The "PNP" stands for Pos. - Neg. - Pos. Germanium was common in the '60's
and before, but it is very unstable and inconstant. This is why you could
have 10 vintage FuzzFace pedals and only 1 would sound good. Because
"vintage" is such a buzz word with guitarist it's still used even though
there is no tonal benefit.
Once silicon transistors were available people stopped using germanium
because silicon is very stable and consistant. Silicon transistors are "NPN'
or Neg. - Pos. - Neg.
If you daisy chain the 2 type of pedals together all power is thrown to
ground, current stops flowing and the pedals turn off.
You will not have either of the above issues if you use the PPII because of
the isolated outputs.
Above I said "might need". This is because both of these issues can be
solved by purchasing a second 1Spot which is still far less expensive than
In the case of the Germanium transistors, you can still daisy chain to other
like pedals. So if you happen have a vintage Fuzz Face and a Fultone '69
pedal, for example, these can be chained together on the same 1Spot.
The 1Spot is just as quite, possibly quitter, than the PPII. It will also
power more pedals, take up no board space and save you money.
Hey man! Go for what you know!:AOK
Yep, true for the original T-Rex Fuel Tank, but the new "Juicy Lucy" and Junior" have, in fact, isolated outputs.
what does that mean? I'm confused.
Even then you could just get another OneSpot. Hell, get three more and you still come out ahead.
The onespots work great for thousands of people so it could work for you too.
However if I had valuable effects I would choose a power supply with a transformer and avoid the cheap digital switching power supplies. Saving a few bucks and possibly destroying pedals does not seem like a good tradeoff.
Boss just came out with a digital switching power supply, the PSA-120S. Maybe they now think it's safe, or put in some safety features, not sure.
IT means if you are happy using a 1 spot go for it. But if you have great expensive pedals think again. You haven't even told us what kind of pedals you have.
I bought a PP2+ so I can use the AM mini clone at 12 volts. I use it to power two Menatones (Who does not recommend them 1 spots.) I also use it to power a megavibe at the Line 6 rating. That is good enough reason.
I use a 1 Spot for a ton of pedals. I carry a backup in my gig bag, but have never had to use it.
I used 2 1Spots to power my board for a year or two, then got some pedals (Menatone, Barber, etc) where the builders expressly told me NOT to use a 1Spot. In essence, the 1Spots 1700ma output is too much for certain pedals. I experienced terrible buzz & hum using the 1Spots, so I ditched them.
I'm happy with my 1 Spot.
Couldn't justify the cost of pedal power supplies. Have had no issues. The available accessories to power a myriad of plugs is also sweet. The daisy extensions are nice too.
This seems like a relatively significant issue, and I'd like to understand exactly what I'm getting myself into. I do have several nice pedals, including a KOT on the way any day now ; ^ ]
So what is a "cheap digital switching power supply"? And how does it destroy pedals? Does the 1 Spot fit this description?
A poster in a similar previous thread regarding the Godlyke power supply had what I thought was a rather astute observation. He wondered why, if these cheap power supplies destroy pedals, isn't TGP riddled with threads warning of their dangers.
Thanks in advance for your input--and for my long-awaited KOT!
Might as well throw my 2 cents in:
I have used both the 1-Spot and PP2 (on my board now) and I swear by the clean power! The first time I plugged my pedals into the PP2 and fired it up I was amazed at the AUDIBLE difference. I try to get the best tone out of my rig... it's nothing too fancy, DD-20, a BD-2, and a few other "booteeky" pedals that I hope to upgrade and add to (my point is that I do not claim to be able to hear the difference between George L's and Lava Cables like some super-heroes that post, just know that there I experienced dramaticaly better tone with the PP2). I have found that clean power is like a great amp- you can spend $10000 on pedals, but if you run them through a Crate solid state POS, you've effectively wasted that money and are getting your tone robbed. Invest in a solid foundation for your tone (i.e. good guitar, amp, and CLEAN POWER). Weather you go Furman, PP2, Flatliner, is not of any particular importance in as much as you GO with conditioned power.
OK, so here's the Voodoo Lab response the the same question, which was "why should I spend an additional $125 on the PPII, instead of the XXXXXX?"
All the outputs of the Pedal Power 2+ are fully isolated from one another, individually grounded, and individually regulated. These are some of the features set the Pedal Power 2+ apart from other multi-output power supplies, including the 1Spot. Here is some further information about the Pedal Power 2+ from our web site:
Isolation is more than fixing ground loops.
Ground loops cause hum, and the solution is to break the unwanted ground path. Isolation is the best way to do it. Unlike other power supplies, Pedal Power 2 Plus isolates EVERY output. This eliminates tone robbing interaction between units. Now you can properly power everything from vintage overdrives to modern digital marvels that others just cant!
Proprietary balanced transformer makes it possible.
A typical transformer, like those used in a wall wart, creates a large magnetic field that causes hum in any audio path near it. Pedal Power 2 Plus uses a custom designed, ultra-low noise toroidal transformer, with separate balanced windings for every output. Now even the most sensitive pedals can be dead quiet.
Switching power supplies arent for everything.
Whats good for charging a cell phone is NOT good for your pedals. While digital switching power supplies are small and inexpensive, they also generate unpredictable transients and extraneous noise. Pedal Power 2 Plus uses an audiophile quality linear supply for consistently stable, clean, pure power.
Also, every one of the eight outputs on the Pedal Power 2+ offers two possible settings, one of which is 9VDC. So it's one of the most versatile power supplies also. And, because the Pedal Power 2+ is known to be such a quality product, it is recommended as a power source by companies like Fulltone, Line 6, etc., and included as a standard or optional feature on custom pedal boards manufactured by several different companies.
Voodoo Lab products also stand out in that they are all hand-built here in our shop in Santa Rosa, CA., not mass-produced overseas. This is one of the reasons we can afford to offer a full five year warranty to the original owner on every Voodoo Lab product, including the Pedal Power 2+.
I hope this information is helpful.
I have a wide variety of pedals-no line6 junk though-my 1spot gives me no problems-noise or hum.