Vocal mic & Guitar amp mic

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by sinner, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. sinner

    sinner Member

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    I've been researching all the threads here, but man I'm maybe more confused now than when I started. :confused:

    I need:

    Vocal mic, for home recording into a little Behringer mixer. I have a low, boomy voice, so I'm thinking something with a nice edge to it, to add some highs and upper range cutting power. I have a lot of overwhelming power in my voice, but could benefit with a good, clear, crisp mic.
    Is the SM57 the mic for me?

    Guitar amp mic: something for both clean and high gain situations. Maybe I need two mics, one for close micing and another to mic the room?
    Maybe the SM57 would also be ok?

    I know this has been covered before, but thanks for your help! :)
     
  2. slhguitar

    slhguitar Member

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    I dont know about for vocals, but the SM57 is THE mic for electric guitar. It is the industry standard, and has been used on countless professional recordings. The 57 will also work for your voice, but I just don't know exactly how it will sound. I have heard that the SM57 and the SM58 are almost identical, the 58 being a live vocal mic. You can't go wrong with a 57, especially when they can be had at around $100 new. (CDN)
     
  3. bluessyndicate

    bluessyndicate Member

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    That being said...if I already have an SM58 (owned it since 1985 and working well but don't know if it has been improved upon over the years), do I need to buy an SM5 to mic guitars (just bought a Presonus Firebox firewire interface)...i.e. everyone says the sm58 and sm57 are so similar..so do i need to buy an sm57 or just use my 58?
     
  4. Antero

    Antero Member

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    The SM57 can pretty much do anything, just not nearly as well as more specialized tools.* Certainly the sort of thing you want around if you're only picking up one mic, though.

    *Lots of people are like "Oh man the SM57 is where it's at for guitar amps!" I kinda think that's just 'cause it's what they've been using forever, and because it can take the SPL. Whatever.
     
  5. UnderTheGroove

    UnderTheGroove Supporting Member

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    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on both of these points. My understanding is that the only difference between the 57 and 58 is the windscreen. The ball on the 58 does change the tone slightly, but probably not enough that it is worth buying an additional 57. I believe the newer ones are made in Mexico, and have heard some complain that they don't sound as good.
     
  6. LSchefman

    LSchefman Member

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    >>I kinda think that's just 'cause it's what they've been using forever, and because it can take the SPL. Whatever.<<

    Partly true.

    But also, because one has heard the combination so often, it gives guitarists the sound they want and expect to hear on a recording. It's kind of a "classic sound" in its own right.

    I've used lots of mics with guitar amps in a professional setting, and I usually prefer what I get with the venerable '57 against the grille. Just a matter of personal taste, and yes, certainly I'm used to it, and being used to it certainly plays a role in why I like it. But what's wrong with that?

    Our work in a studio is artistic & sonic creation. For some of us, this means constant experimentation to get things to sound unusual, or personal, and that's great. For others, it's a matter of setting up what usually works, and getting to the creation part on the actual instrument without a lot of screwing around with mics. Some projects call for both approaches in a single song.

    I think both approaches are valid.

    I do think the Royers and other ribbons are also fast becoming standards, for that big, gooshy, "modern" guitar sound one hears a lot as well. In any event, I'm not fond of the sound of a guitar amp with most condenser mics (I do like the Blue Dragonfly on clean guitar sounds).
     
  7. clothwiring

    clothwiring Supporting Member

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    For guitars I run a SM-57 live and in the studio, works perfectly. For vocals I've found that the Neumann KMS-105 works great for live and good for studio vocals. I don't have the cash to buy a studio Neumann, but the KMS-105 does what I need it to do. I also have an AT 4033 that I also use for studio vocals, but the Neumann does a better job for what I need. I find that the SM-57 and the KMS 105 do the job without spending a ton of money. I got the KMS for a good price at $408 to my door.
     
  8. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    >> My understanding is that the only difference between the 57 and 58 is the windscreen. The ball on the 58 does change the tone slightly, but probably not enough that it is worth buying an additional 57.

    Not true. They sound very differerent. But I feel the 57 is better as a vocal mic than the 58 as an instrument mic, in other words, the 57 is more versatile. I think the 58 sucks for most instruments. Worth buying? I dunno, is your sound worth $85?

    >> I believe the newer ones are made in Mexico, and have heard some complain that they don't sound as good.

    I don't know about that. Then again, with certain people all you have to do is mention where it's made and they'll "hear" a difference – and inevitably, the newer product is much worse. Especially if they read someone else saying so on the internet.

    >> I usually prefer what I get with the venerable '57 against the grille.

    I do too... though my experience with other mics is not as broad as yours. The 57 captures a sound I like.

    I also like what the Royer does, as a contrast. But for me, and what I like to hear, any other mic I've tried is either "as good as a 57 but different," or not as good. And I've not yet found one that I like as much on as many types of tones.
     
  9. Greggy

    Greggy Member

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    Sounds like you need a vocal mic with a hyped high end to counter your boomy voice. The Studio Projects C1 or C3 large diaphragm condenser may be a good choice. Mine (C3) is bright, and well suited to boomy sound sources. For example, when recording an acoustic guitar, I position it over the sound hole. I would never do this with my KM184 because of the abundance of low frequency content at that position. The C3 works fine there, though. And I've heard from some on this board that it is a good vocal mic. Good luck in your search.
     
  10. Aldwyn

    Aldwyn Member

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    Wait... arent ALL Shures made in Mexico??
     
  11. sinner

    sinner Member

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    Thanks for the replies and tips!

    I've been reading more about the new Shure Beta 58A and that one has more power, less prone to feedback for live vocal work. Anyone compare that to the old standby SM58?

    Then compare the standard workhorse SM57 for guitar amp mic to the Sennheiser E609? This appears to be able to place more directly in front of a speaker cab without worry about angle, but does anyone have both and can compare the sound?

    thanks again!
     
  12. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    Could be.

    Maybe the "vintage" 57s from the 60s were hand made in... uh, Texas or something. ;)
     
  13. Mac-P

    Mac-P Member

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    I have 2 made in USA Shure SM58's. They are at least 15 years old and all beat up, but they still work fine. They can sound dull sometimes through certain PA's.

    Yes, the Senheiser 609 is a great guitar amp mic. Better than the SM57 to these ears. It is flat, so angle isn't an issue. Just placement location. Not as shrill in the top end.

    I find that I spend so much time getting a good guitar tone (which by the way is brightest right in front of the speaker), and the SM57 has an upper midrange peak that changes the tone and makes it shrill and too bright.

    Did you ever do a gig and your onstage sound was great and then you listen back to the recording and your guitar is waaaay too bright? SM57 baby. :dude

    The 609 is flatter and warmer for sure. The Senheiser 906 is even better. It has a 3 position switch to adjust the upper midrange (dip, flat, bump). You can get the midrange peak if you want. Very useful.

    I would say that if you already have an SM58 you don't need an SM57. Maybe the Beta 57 if you are in 57 mode. The beta line is louder before feedback and more robust. I used to use a Beta 87C in a previous band and my vocals never sounded better. Even through my crappy ass PA. It is a condenser though and needs phantom power.

    Good luck!

    Peace. :D
     
  14. sinner

    sinner Member

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    Thanks for the info--the Shure Beta 58A is Condenser you said?, is the older SM58 and the SM57 as well?
     
  15. Aldwyn

    Aldwyn Member

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    I use a 58Beta exclusivly for live work. I didn't like ANY of my recordings when I tried using it to mic an acoustic or an amp, or even for vocal tracking. So my Beta because a live mic only.

    YMMV, but I wouldnt suggest a Beta for anything other then live work.
     
  16. TAVD

    TAVD Guitar Player Gold Supporting Member

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    A RE20 was the first mic I thought of when I read your thread. A great vocal mic and arguably one of the best mics for amps.
     
  17. Mac-P

    Mac-P Member

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    No, the Beta 87c is condenser. The Beta 57, 58 and SM 57 & 58 are all dynamic mics (not condenser and don't need power).

    :AOK
     

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