volume pedal and "tuner" out ?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by rockster12, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. rockster12

    rockster12 Supporting Member

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    does the Tuner out feature on the EB vol. pedal take the tuner out of the effects chain?
     
  2. rollyfoster

    rollyfoster Supporting Member

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    yah. you have to push the heel of the vol. pedal down all the way to engage the tuner out
     
  3. rockster12

    rockster12 Supporting Member

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    I understand how to work it, but what I am asking is, does it remove it from the chain electronically? Like an A/B box would.
     
  4. vintage saddles

    vintage saddles Supporting Member

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    It does not remove the tuner completely from the chain. A signal is still routed to the tuner at all times. Does it make a difference? I can't tell on my board.
     
  5. rockster12

    rockster12 Supporting Member

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    I wonder if it is routed in line with the amp as well or if it just dumps the signal to the tuner and then it stops there. Kind of like a Y cable.
     
  6. Cap'n Fingers

    Cap'n Fingers Member

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    You'd think it wouldn't but I'm sure some signal
    goes back to the amp. I've had a bad input on my
    tuner that caused a pop and crackle that fed
    back into my amp just as if it were in the chain.
    Shame. :(
     
  7. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    I don't think it takes it out of the chain. When I used a cheap tuner, the guitar volume dropped by half. It wasn't a subjective thing. It literally dropped by half. When using a better quality tuner, such as one with a good buffer or TB, there is less change.

    That's how I deduced that it doesn't take it out of the chain. I could be wrong.
     
  8. Chadley

    Chadley Member

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    I have seen tuners drastically effect the signal using an Ernie Ball tuner out. To the point even that I thought a distortion pedal was on.

    Since moving to my new Boss volume pedal I have had zero issues.
     
  9. waxnsteel

    waxnsteel Member

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    I don't think it's "in the chain" anymore in the tuner out(nothing's coming out of the tuner's "out" jack, right?), but the signal sent from the vol pedal to the amp (in the EB case, I know for sure) is not the same with something plugged into the tuner out. The volume pedal itself had an effect on the tone that I did not enjoy, and couldn't happily compensate for. Adding a pedal at the tuner out made it worse. You may like it. You may not.
     
  10. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    That is a misconception, that nothing is coming out of the tuner "out" jack making it isolated, because the tuner is always "hanging off" of the circuit, it is definitely IN the signal path. It is "seen" by the rest of the path as a tuner parallel to the rest, path to ground through the patch cable.

    I used to use tuner out, but went over to a looper with dedicated tuner out that is not connected at all when not engaged. Though I really didn' notice tone sucking..
     
  11. waxnsteel

    waxnsteel Member

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    You don't have to get too deep, but how? I can understand that it's robbing the signal that's supposed to go from the guitar to the amp, but to me that doesn't seem like "in the path." If a river splits in two, the water goes to two different places, like the signal generated from your guitar, right? It makes sense to me that the pedal is a dead end(I know that's impossible). How does the signal that goes to the tuner in the tuner out get to the amp? I understand "seen by." I don't understand "in the path." Is it coming back through the cable it came in on?
     
  12. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    Okay...the signal path isn't as obvious, because of the misleading bit about the having no cable output from the output jack, but...

    The electronics in the tuner get fed from the patch cable to the input. That cable has two "leads", the positive wire and the shield. The shield is a return path to ground that goes on and becomes part of the whole shebang. The main thing that tells you this is...the tuner receives the signal AS does the rest of the path. You can tune while the guitar is playing out there. It is not a river that splits, but one that splits and meets up again...which means if you widen the split (using your analogy) or float a toy sailboat on the river it will get back to the "main river".

    Main thing is, part of the signal is hanging there, and it is common to the rest of the signal path.

    On a looper, when you hit the tuner switch, the rest of the path cuts out (at least on my loop master, which does it right) because it is either or...it is disconnected when not tuning.

    Did that help?
     
  13. rockster12

    rockster12 Supporting Member

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    Ok, but by that analogy you could say the same thing about an a/b box or looper as there is shared ground with it as well.
     
  14. Memphis

    Memphis Member

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    Not quite - "That cable has two "leads", the positive wire and the shield." With the A/B box or Looper, only the shield stays connected, not the positive (signal) wire, so you no longer have a circuit.
     
  15. jdps150

    jdps150 Member

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    I tried it w/ mine for about 20 seconds.
    Even w/ the the toe-down, it sucked tone.
     
  16. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    As Memphis said...isn't quite the same thing. This is more like the issue of True Bypass versus Passive bypass. The shared ground is the key. The Loopers I have do not leave them hanging off. There is no circuit when off.
     
  17. Passenger84

    Passenger84 Member

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    Okay, so I feel like an idiot. All this time on true bypass, good cables, and buffers, and I never even thought about the tuner out from my ernie ball. I saw this post five minutes ago, went out and ab'd my rig with and without the tuner out for 15 seconds, and there's a very noticeable difference, at least to my ears. I'm really bummed I never thought about that. :jo
     
  18. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    Like StompBoxBlues said, The "tuner out" is simply wired in parallel to the input jack of the volume pedal. This is exactly the same arrangement as you'll find in a stock Crybaby wah (only this time the wah circuit is replaced by the tuner), which we all know can do really bad things to the sound.

    How much tone you'll lose when using the tuner out jack will depend on several factors, the biggest of which are:

    - where in the chain the volume pedal/tuner is placed (the worst tone loss occurs when it's placed first, and the least when it's placed after a buffered/Boss-type pedal), and

    - the input impedance of the tuner (cheapo tuners can literally cut the signal in half, while dedicated pedal tuners like the DT-10 and TU-2 will have slightly less impact, due to their higher input impedance)

    I wrote a small article about this a while back, which may or may not be useful. If anyone's interested, you'll find it here.

    /Andreas
     
  19. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    Your not an idiot. We all are just finding out what affects and doesn't...I did it too til I realized. Been hanging that tuner off of there for a good coupla years :)

    One thing I wondered about, the TU-2 Tuner, for example, is actually considered by people I respect a lot, to be a damned good buffer pedal. I wonder if it isn't better to have the tuner (if you don't want to use a looper pedal that actually cuts out the tuner, using it only when sqitched to it) in the signal path. I could think that it might do worse things to the signal hanging off of the circuit like it is, instead of actively moving the signal down the line.

    Another thing...it would be smart of Analogman, Brian Wampler, or someone else to think about modding the EB (VERY popular pedals) so maybe a heel down position switched over to the tuner...isolate it in the circuit so only when no sound through the vol pedal (would mean automatic muting too!).

    Just a thought.
     
  20. waxnsteel

    waxnsteel Member

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    Yeah, thanks for that.

    Your looper is like switching train track, right? lol.
     

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