W/D/W Question - Tech 21 Power Engine 60 vs Power Amp/PA Speaker Combo Setup

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Stone Driver, Jan 26, 2012.

Power Amp / PA Speakers or Tech 21 Power Engines for W/D/W setup?

  1. Power Amp w/ 2 PA Speakers

  2. Tech 21 Power Engines

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  1. Stone Driver

    Stone Driver Silver Supporting Member

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    Greetings to the all knowing forum-
    I posted this on the amp & cab forum, but thought this might be a better thread to get some feedback.

    I am in the process of setting up my first W/D/W rig, and wanted to leverage the groups experience in helping to pick the right gear for my situation. My stereo wet signal will consist of Eventide ModFactor and TimeFactor pedals.

    I feel pretty squared away on how I am going to handle all the wiring and routing for the Dry & Wet mixes, however I am stuck on what would be the right move to amplify and project the Wet signals with my Dry mix.

    I am split between using a power amp and passive PA speakers, or two Tech 21 Power Engines. From reading the forum posts, the Power Amp/PA speaker setup sounds very popular and effective choice. However, the simplicity of the Tech 21 setup seems nice, plus I save a rack space on my rig (a nice to have, but I do have the space if need be). My questions for the group are:

    1) Does anyone have any experience with both setups, and have any thoughts to share on the pros and cons of each?

    2) Which setup would have better sound quality?

    3) If you prefer the Power Amp / PA speaker setup, what PA speakers would you recommend?

    4) Are there any worthwhile options that I am not considering?


    Thanks again for everyone input and help, feel free to PM me with any additional questions that you may have. Thanks again, cheers!


    Signal Path: G&L Legacy -> 2 x Mark L Custom S10 + A whole lot of pedals -> Two Rock Custom Reverb v3

    Stereo Signal: Effect send of TR Amp -> Mark L Custom S10 -> Stereo Pedals (L/R, 100% wet) -> Mark L Custom Stereo Line Mixer -> Yet to be determined power amp/speaker setup.
     
  2. Stone Driver

    Stone Driver Silver Supporting Member

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  3. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Member

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    The PA speaker/ power amp won't sound good unless you are micing the amp. The effects send will just be the sound of your amp's preamp without the benefit of the power amp and guitar speakers. The guitar speaker curve is big component of your final sound. A guitar preamp without some sort of speaker emulation circuit will sound fizzy and brittle through a convention PA cab.

    The Power Engine will probably work better unless I've misunderstood your setup. It has a guitar speaker and also has additional active EQ that allow you to further tailor its tonal response.
     
  4. buddaman71

    buddaman71 Student of Life Silver Supporting Member

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    Maybe the overall VERY best sounding rig I ever owned (although ended up being more than I wanted to carry to every show) was my Mesa LSC with send to GSP for effects only and the L/R outputs each feeding it's own PE60. True WDW and incredible sound. Looked very cool too.
     
  5. Git-fiddle guy

    Git-fiddle guy Member

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    I use the PE 60 daily with the Eleven Rack and the HD 500. Works and sounds great!!
     
  6. Stone Driver

    Stone Driver Silver Supporting Member

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    Thank you all, extremely helpful. Do you think the dual PE60's playing my 100% Wet signal will be loud enough to keep up with my Two-Rock Custom 50? Not looking for stadium rocking levels, just enough stage volume to play with an aggressive drummer, PA guy can take care of the rest. Cheers
     
  7. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Member

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    Yes. It would be more than enough power. 120 watts vs the 50 watts your Two Rock has. In general for effects like reverb and delay, the wet signal is "blended" with the dry signal and rarely needs to be at the same volume as the dry signal. Maybe a 50 to 75% wet to 100% dry. It depends on how you have it set.

    The thing is with that type of setup if you turn on and off your effects and have no sound coming through the wet cabs you will experience a volume drop.
     
  8. Stone Driver

    Stone Driver Silver Supporting Member

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    Good points, thank you Tech21. Does anyone have any advice on how to avoid the volume drop inherent in turning "off" the stereo W/W effects and switching to only a dry signal?

    For ref, I am feeding my W/D/W system from a Suhr ISO Line Out pedal. The W/W signal will pass through a MLC S10 looper/switcher to a choice of a Eventide Modfactor, Timefactor, and Space with 100% KillDry engaged. The stereo outputs of the 100% Wet effect pedals are run into a MLC Stereo Line Driver for parallel mixing and volume control. From the MLC Line Driver, I will most likely run the stereo L & R signals to two Tech21 PE60's for amplification.

    For whatever reason I am blanking on how I can make this work with no apparent volume loss when the stereo W/W effects are disengaged. Anyone with any thoughts or experience care to chime in? Thanks again,
     
  9. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Member

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    If your effects will allow, you can sometimes set up a patch with a very small delay like 15-20 Ms at the same level the regular effect would be blended at. This way you always have signal going through your wet cabs but there is no obvious effect.
     
  10. Husky

    Husky Gold Supporting Member

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    Nope that would be engineering 101
    you are adding both signals, you could with a switch system have your signal be padded, or mix a little dry in to the effect cabs all the time. Only if they are added in an analog mixer though.
    Or find a place for a line level volume pedal.
     
  11. Stone Driver

    Stone Driver Silver Supporting Member

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  12. tweedster

    tweedster Supporting Member

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    I have an Axe-Fx standard, and I bought 2 Tech 21 Power Engines for it. Lets just say it convinced me to buy 2 FBT Verve 8ma's. I gave the Tech 21's and my Vox Tonelab SE (used to be BluesDoc's) to my teenage kids for use in their bands.
     
  13. socalscott

    socalscott Member

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    The Unleash from Bad Cat may be an option. 100W D Class. super compact and light. Not a combo, it's just a small cube head.
     
  14. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    check out the reviews of the Matrix GT800FX used to power the wet sides of a W/D/W rig (traditional guitar cabs for the wet side as well) on HugeRacks. its VERY complimentary.

    There are also some Youtube vids of Dave Friedman commenting on how good the Matrix is in a W/D/W mix with his own amps providing the dry.
     
  15. pbognar

    pbognar Member

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    Hey tech21nyc dude, don't want to high-jack the thread, but just wondering - any tech21 dealers with PE's to try out in the Milwaukee area?
     
  16. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Member

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    Not off hand. Here is a link to the dealers in your area. Unfortunately with the thousands of products on the market it seems there is a limited amount of retail space these days. Usually the big online retailers have them available.

    http://www.tech21nyc.com/dealers/index.html
     
  17. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    I have a K10 and highly dislike it for live performance. Saving for a Tech 21 Power engine.......
     
  18. HolyMuffDiver

    HolyMuffDiver Member

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    I've been extremely happy with my Power Engine for years now. I'll probably keep it for as long as I use modeling gear.
     
  19. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    That;s great to hear
     
  20. xrist04

    xrist04 Member

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    I've got a pair of Tech21 Power Engine 60s for sale cheap, PM me if interested
     

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