Warehouse Speakers- too good to be true?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Dr.Picklebottom, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. macmax77

    macmax77 Supporting Member

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    I have one cab with a Retro 30 with one Celestion 12-65
    I have another cab with 2 retro 30's
    I have another redplate cab with a 2rock speaker + a retro 30

    Can you see which one is in all 3 cabs?
     
  2. Humble Texan Fan

    Humble Texan Fan Member

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    Sorry, my reference is to the HP only - did take a while to break in though, tough as nails. Had the occasional run-in with some Celestion G12H30... 75Hz Heritage ones, I think, but never actually owned one. And used to have the plain 55 Hz Weber equivalent at one point - don't think I got to break it in properly before I sold it on, though. Experience has taught me that if you don't like what you hear pre break-in you won't like it after either.

    From what I can tell, however, the HP is just ever so slightly smoother on top compared to the 30W one - the Green Beret vs the Invader seem to differ way more in that the Iny is much fuller and mellower.

    I don't recall the Invaders and Liberators taking anywhere near this long - but then they sounded more likable to my ears out of the box, so with them it was more like watching infatuation grow into love.

    In my experience most manufacturers of drivers have dampers of perhaps 3 different grades. This means that one driver may have the same or as hard a damper as one of perhaps twice that power. With more power running through the latter at break-in, assumably, it's likely to break in sooner as well.
     
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  3. candid_x

    candid_x Supporting Member

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    Listened to demo comparing Reaper 30 to 50W HP. No doubt to my ears that the HP, at least out of the box, has lots more brightness or sparkle, can sound downright searing, compared to the more balanced 30 watter. Just the opposite of smoother, which you hear.

    Before I knew of WGS I was using a Wizard for a while (Emi's 50W H30 version), and it cut the mustard well in the studio, but that high end jangle eventually wore me out. Much better at higher volumes. At lower volumes the high remained while the low and mids faded away - ow.

    My specifics: While I love the Jupiter 12LP in my Louis Columbia, I also liked Louis' earlier choice of a G12H30, though less USA and more Brit flavor, which is neither good nor bad; just depends what you're going for. I specifically liked the low end it brought to the amp; and since the Columbia has a very responsive mid control, the H30/Reaper scoop can easily be filled in to taste. As it is now I run the mid usually around 3.5 with the Jupiter.

    So *scratching my chin stubble* while I do like the amp as is, that ole curiosity has been pokin' at me. I have an ET-65 I haven't used since selling my DRRI. Maybe could find a trade for a 30W Reaper, which I think would work well in this amp, given the treble that it has in reserve. I'd hold onto to the Jupiter, which is a great speaker in its own right.
     
  4. Humble Texan Fan

    Humble Texan Fan Member

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    For the intricacies of WGS speakers I'd recommend a heart-to-heart with Dean/ Spkrbld on here. He is likely responsible for the most minute overtone of their stuff and have more technical knowhow than I could ever dream of gaining.
    Are you sure the demo:er didn't get it the wrong way around? With the increased weight of the VC resonance tends to drop slightly and highs not be as bright. I distinctlly recall Vaughn the motor mouth commented on this in his comparison of the two.

    The HP obviously having more headroom could translate into a more defined or clearer sound. And the mids could potentially hit a frequency that, despite being lower as such, is bitier and thus sticks out more. And the mid hump shifted lower the mids don't overshadow the highs as much

    Yes, lows tend to require some juice to push the air about. Nature of the beast, I'm afraid. WGS speakers seem to be quite consistant in this regard in my experience, though. LH dust caps and vented cores may not be your preference but these features could help w. maintaining the tonal balance - and could be specified as a one off from WGS, I understand.

    Then do try the ET65 for this, like you suggested. I seem to prefer their M magnet stuff more - though the ET90 does seem quite full and rounded for an H magnet driver - but then these rarely have the highest of highs and lowest of lows w. Kurt Mueller cones.
     
  5. candid_x

    candid_x Supporting Member

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    I tried the ET65 from an ext speaker cab and it did nothing for me from this particular amp. I find the ET65 to work either to cut extreme highs or to get that brown sound from Marshalls. I mentioned the possibility of trading mine for a Reaper. However, I swapped output tubes in it today and it gave me the warmth I was looking for, so sticking with the Jupiter.
     
  6. ekkybedmond

    ekkybedmond Member

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    They're excellent. As with all speakers: they'll have to match/ get along with an amp.. and sometime it's a long search path...

    Mine are: Invader with Ceriatone Creme Brulee (EF86/EL34)
    Blackhawk with my 5F4 (Tweed Super) combo
    Custom built G12H-55 with my 2204/JCM 800

    All 1x12 combo
     
  7. ducker 1

    ducker 1 Member

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    These guys are the original makers of the Randall Jaguars speakers that were originally designed for Lynch--I have a cab with 2/12s and I love it--not too bright and not too boomy--they work well with all of my amps---old folk will remember them as CTS speakers.
     
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  8. Blue Marvel

    Blue Marvel Member

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    WGS are the only speakers I use for guitar anymore. They have made some good choices in design and models. Great performers!
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  9. mdog114

    mdog114 Member

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    That was tight! Nice work
     
  10. GCKelloch

    GCKelloch Member

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    From what I've learned and what I see in the SPL graphs I've taken of various speaker clips, the Reaper HP has a slightly smoother ~5kHz peak than the 30W. It has slightly stronger and tighter bass and maybe slightly stronger upper-mids, which would result in a more scooped, yet smoother sound -- all of which being the result of a larger voice coil and a Kapton former to both push and damp the cone better, as well as add weight. The WGS demo clips of each speaker are really too different to judge by, but the high end in the SPL graph shows the same roll-off point of ~5.5kHz. My take is they are more like pre-Rola G12H than Blackbacks. The Chinese Celest G12H's may sound like they have more harmonic complexity because there is more 2~2.5kHz emphasis = less low and high end.

    The ET's and the BH HP have the same upper-mid peaks as the Reapers, but the wide cloth cap damps the inner-cone resonances. There appears to be just a bit more ~1.5kHz and a dip at ~4.7kHz in all three. The ET90 sounds like it has a more scooped sound than the ET65 with the stronger upper-mids and tighter bass a larger voice coil and magnet creates.

    The Retro 30 appears to be a BH 50W (or Celestion Gold) with a ceramic magnet and larger voice coil= more punch and cut, but the high end peaks are still very smooth. It's essentially flat from 2~5.5kHz with a 3kHz dip that reduces the "ice-pick" in the ear effect. It has a more filled-in midrange than the Reapers, which may be why it sounds like there is less bass. It's a relatively bright speaker, but a bit "softer" than the G12C.

    The Veteran 30 looks like the WGS take on the Celest V-type, but a bit warmer and fuller.

    The GB looks a lot like the Celest Heritage G12M, while the Invader looks like the G12M-65 or Lynchback. Maybe it sounds kinda in between the two with the improvements closer build tolerances offer?

    Regarding the G12C/S, smooth cone speakers generally do not break up unless driven too hard; at which point they would sound awful and possibly blow up. It appears to have a virtually flat response up to the 5kHz roll off. I'd assume very little resonance coloration.
     
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  11. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Member

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    About 5 years ago, a buddy threw in an uninstalled Retro 30 with a Jet City 20W combo. That was an ideal match.

    Last year, I installed a Retro 30 in my Mesa DC-3 and that's not as ideal. Fairly bright speaker with a fairly bright amp made for a very bright combo.

    Not unusable, just a little touchy and capable of sterilizing children and killing small animals if they venture into the beam.

    It still sounds better than the tired stock V30.
     
  12. MHG

    MHG Member

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    Yeah, the Retro 30 sounds great with my JTM45, which is a pretty warm amp.
     
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  13. bluesoul

    bluesoul Gold Supporting Member

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    Is there anything in the WGS lineup that replaced the discontinued "British lead"?
     
  14. Hapax Legonemon

    Hapax Legonemon Member

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    Since this thread is back I'll add to the Retro 30 praise: if I could pick only one speaker it would be the Retro 30. Open-backed, Closed-back, Clean or Driven... it's fantastic with everything.
     
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  15. Al Rose

    Al Rose Gold Supporting Member

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    I use an ET-65 in my DC2 and it sounds a lot smoother than the stock MS-12 or V30 I had.

    Al
     
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  16. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Member

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    Al...we seem to have similar tastes!
     
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  17. deepcove17

    deepcove17 Supporting Member

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    Veteran 10 sounds killer in my Pro Jr :cool:
     
  18. Blue Marvel

    Blue Marvel Member

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    My fave WGS is the G12CS just a great speaker!
     
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  19. GCKelloch

    GCKelloch Member

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    Listening back to these WGS clips on headphones:


    they seem to be setup the same. I can definitely hear more distinct higher harmonics in the HP, which make it a skosh more metallic. I think the bigger voice coil damps better and the Kapton former probably has less and/or lower freq resonance as not to mask the upper guitar harmonics. The attack of the Reaper 30 is just a tad more brittle, like a whip "crack".
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  20. MHG

    MHG Member

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    I love the C/S as well! I also have the G12A/S which is also equally amazing!! These two speakers truly are instruments unto themselves.
     
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