Warm up take and real take

cdaloia

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3,426
I was sound checking for levels and played this... I would usually just erase and do a real take but for some reason I listened back and had a laugh at the occasional "falling down the stairs and landing on my head" moments. There are some redeeming moments of musicality but mostly this would be considered "evidence" I will post the final take when I'm done. As I listened to the first take I noticed that even tho it might not be the "appropriate take" there are spontaneous things happening which led to the comments below. Art Bernstein on drums and these clips will be for his column in DrumHead mag.

http://www.chuckdaloiamusic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/rpbkooktakenobass.mp3

real take: http://chuckdaloiamusic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/rpbLPnobass.mp3

Chuck
 
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garyh

Member
Messages
626
Love the spontaneity in that. I love to hear a good player (or great player in this instance) just blowing. That's sounding like a cool tune in the making Chuck.
 

Woodyworld

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Messages
2,099
Haha - love it. Agree with Gary there's something magical about hearing a player free of the leash and just blowing when the red lights not on. (err well it was on but.....err well I think you know what I mean)
 

cdaloia

Member
Messages
3,426
Thanks guys, I sure was playing like there was no red light on.
Here's what happened when the red light came on. No stairs, no falls, no feeling like, WTF is next? Tasty (I hope) studio playing but none of that urgency. Did use an LP tho, that's new for me. We all have a couple of different hats, especially if you do this kind of studio stuff. This is the hat that gets me paid.

http://chuckdaloiamusic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/rpbLPnobass.mp3

Chuck
 
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Woodyworld

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Messages
2,099
Sounds mighty tasty - lovely. LP adds some girth - big ole tone that.
Hope the mag sells buckets.
 

icarusi

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Messages
498
Sounds mighty tasty - lovely. LP adds some girth - big ole tone that.
Hope the mag sells buckets.
+1! There used to be a midi recording program which defaulted to record. Every time you pressed play it would record any midi input but would only save the input to a track if you pressed 'save'. The whole 'red light' thing was upended. I know now you can autorecord take after take, (assuming a prerecorded BT) so it doesn't feel so much like a red-light-one-take situation but wonder what would happen if it was set up like that midi software so it was less obvious a recording was happening and a decision after the event.
 

cdaloia

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3,426
+1! There used to be a midi recording program which defaulted to record. Every time you pressed play it would record any midi input but would only save the input to a track if you pressed 'save'. The whole 'red light' thing was upended. I know now you can autorecord take after take, (assuming a prerecorded BT) so it doesn't feel so much like a red-light-one-take situation but wonder what would happen if it was set up like that midi software so it was less obvious a recording was happening and a decision after the event.
Sounds interesting. I like that part of the current tech. Capturing real performances and maybe editing a bit or tuning here and there before all of the life is sucked out from multiple takes. I've done this kind of stuff (hired hand session playing) for over 30 years and the psychology is still interesting to me.

As far as making records, that's a different set of chops. My old live trio record (Equation) has a different vibe than anything I've ever done. I can actually listen to it from time to time. For the last one, "Circle 7" (all overdubs to a drum track) my attitude was that I'm going to really make this nice. Take my time, punch, write short songs with melodies and arrangements that work. Some are even catchy. I can occasionally listen to that one too.

But this kind of hired hand work is "get her done" you know? I guess that's why I put this thing up. To show what happened when getting levels and then when it counted. To really capture true spontaneity the trick is not to care IMO. And as silly as it is, there is some spontaneity in the warm up take but not so much in the $ take.

I would be curious to hear what others have to say about this kind of stuff.
Any takers?

Chuck
 

Lucidology

Member
Messages
26,844
Loved both of them goomba ...
However the "fallen down stairs" one would probably get U noticed more then the one you titled the money maker ..
At least from a musician's viewpoint ...

What I mean is that you're playing there is so original ..
the way your running your notes together so beautifully is an incomparable to so many other players ...
Note choices & phrases ...

It's that sort of playing or quality in a musician my great piano playing buddy Weber Iago calls "crazy discipline"...
The kind that separates a great player from a fuggin' brilliant musician ...
The kind of musician who's skills many folk will want to both analysis & imitate ...

Don't know if that makes much sense, but you probably understand by jest...
 

cdaloia

Member
Messages
3,426
Loved both of them goomba ...
However the "fallen down stairs" one would probably get U noticed more then the one you titled the money maker ..
At least from a musician's viewpoint ...

What I mean is that you're playing there is so original ..
the way your running your notes together so beautifully is an incomparable to so many other players ...
Note choices & phrases ...

It's that sort of playing or quality in a musician my great piano playing buddy Weber Iago calls "crazy discipline"...
The kind that separates a great player from a fuggin' brilliant musician ...
The kind of musician who's skills many folk will want to both analysis & imitate ..

Don't know if that makes much sense, but you probably understand by jest...
Thanks for the comments Paison. I get it and also like what happened on the warm up take as an improvisor. That's the creative "who cares" spontaneous stuff. But if you're doing a "hired hand" session the client would choose the 2nd one 99 times out of 100. You know that kind of work.... it's a different set of chops. When I did demos for D style amps I played in a style that the amp advertised...that RF LC vibe. So many people think that's how I play, my voice... My friends that have known me for years don't think of me in that way at all. It's like a session gig. "Play like "fill in the blank" You learn how to do that kind of thing to survive as a guitar player for hire as you well know.


Thanks for your interesting and insightful thoughts.

Goomba
 
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HarryJ

Member
Messages
2,995
I have said it a million times... will again
you could play 2 notes on a one stringed bouzouki, and make more music than most.

What a thick tone! Loved it

HJ
 

Woodyworld

Member
Messages
2,099
Interesting the things I've picked up from your response here Chuck.

I spend considerable time recording and yet despite the familiarity of it I still find the whole process odd to get to grips with mentally. I think your absolutely right - to capture true spontaneity you have to almost not care - just switch off and go for it - in a way much like a live gig. When your recording your own material knowing you can do it again (if you have a home studio) certainly helps set you up for that approach although even then it can be frustrating some days.

For the paid sessions like you said, the psychology changes - there's a need to get the track down cleanly and quickly and ensure as perfect a take as possible. Everything feels like it's under the microscope more. Inevitably it tends to lead to a far more controlled and sterile take in my experience.

I can't listen to much of what I record once it's done ( I'm picking up you might be the same there) . It usually grates me in one way or another - Funny ole game.


Sounds interesting. I like that part of the current tech. Capturing real performances and maybe editing a bit or tuning here and there before all of the life is sucked out from multiple takes. I've done this kind of stuff (hired hand session playing) for over 30 years and the psychology is still interesting to me.

As far as making records, that's a different set of chops. My old live trio record (Equation) has a different vibe than anything I've ever done. I can actually listen to it from time to time. For the last one, "Circle 7" (all overdubs to a drum track) my attitude was that I'm going to really make this nice. Take my time, punch, write short songs with melodies and arrangements that work. Some are even catchy. I can occasionally listen to that one too.

But this kind of hired hand work is "get her done" you know? I guess that's why I put this thing up. To show what happened when getting levels and then when it counted. To really capture true spontaneity the trick is not to care IMO. And as silly as it is, there is some spontaneity in the warm up take but not so much in the $ take.

I would be curious to hear what others have to say about this kind of stuff.
Any takers?

Chuck
 
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icarusi

Member
Messages
498
Sounds interesting. I like that part of the current tech. Capturing real performances and maybe editing a bit or tuning here and there before all of the life is sucked out from multiple takes. I've done this kind of stuff (hired hand session playing) for over 30 years and the psychology is still interesting to me.
Some of the big name producers and artists, after budgets and timescales went excessive, had to emulate a 'red-light-on' situation to get a 'performance' take again, so it can work both ways. I like the 'fat time' feel of first track but I can hear how the second track would probably closer suit the situation. Good to be able to hear both.
 

cdaloia

Member
Messages
3,426
I have said it a million times... will again
you could play 2 notes on a one stringed bouzouki, and make more music than most.

What a thick tone! Loved it

HJ
Well thanks HJ, you know I think of you in the highest regard. You're an original. And yea, the LP on the 2nd take...it's like playing a different ax after 31 years of fender style/scale guitars.

Interesting the things I've picked up from your response here Chuck.

I spend considerable time recording and yet despite the familiarity of it I still find the whole process odd to get to grips with mentally. I think your absolutely right - to capture true spontaneity you have to almost not care - just switch off and go for it - in a way much like a live gig. When your recording your own material knowing you can do it again (if you have a home studio) certainly helps set you up for that approach although even then it can be frustrating some days.

For the paid sessions like you said, the psychology changes - there's a need to get the track down cleanly and quickly and ensure as perfect a take as possible. Everything feels like it's under the microscope more. Inevitably it tends to lead to a far more controlled and sterile take in my experience.

I can't listen to much of what I record once it's done ( I'm picking up you might be the same there) . It usually grates me in one way or another - Funny ole game.
Your assumptions are right on the $ Woody as far as listening to my own stuff. It's getting a little easier. (as I appraoch 55 ; ) :messedup

I'm guessing that most everyone can relate to this situation. I usually fall back on my bag of tricks so I can get it done fast when the clients are there... This thing w/ Art is not in that category but it got me thinking about the process.

Some of the big name producers and artists, after budgets and timescales went excessive, had to emulate a 'red-light-on' situation to get a 'performance' take again, so it can work both ways. I like the 'fat time' feel of first track but I can hear how the second track would probably closer suit the situation. Good to be able to hear both.
Thanks for taking the time to contribute to this discussion. "Emulate a red-light-on situation" Now that's a phrase you don't hear too often. Funny and very insightful.

Anyone else?

Chuck
 

ToneZappa

Member
Messages
1,359
They all sound great to me Chuck...
As far as the red light syndrome goes I always find the opening bar of a solo the toughest because to me it always sets the whole solo up (after that anything can happen... but the end has to be good though)

Bub. :aok
 
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DøøG

Member
Messages
3,204
As every one else said, yeah both are great, but I can see that the second one be the one of choice, even tho you may think it's a little "safe". I guess it's one of those things, the nature of the date and what you get called to do.

The Red Light "syndrome", lol. No stranger to that one, ha. Altho it would depend on the session, I guess. At home it's non exisitent, and certain sessions too. One producer buddy used to tell me "just run thru it once while we get levels" and would take it (yeah, levels my !@##, haha). A lot of times that would be the one, lol. While I wasn't thinking, funny how that works.
 




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