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Was POD 2.0 the first serious digital modeller?

pureanalog

Member
Messages
123
How much did it cost in today's money? Was it the "Axe Fx" and "Kemper" of its time? I know many studios used to own pods for recording.

I am wondering, did Line6 position their own products from top to mid range on purpose?

EDIT: I mean POD 1 and not 2.0
 

mdme_sadie

Member
Messages
549
The original Pod didn't blow my mind, back then I was using the BOSS and Roland digital modelers which were out quite a bit before the Pod in the mid 90's. I was using a Boss GX700 and tried out the Pod as lots of people were raving about it, but to me it sounded fizzy, thin and just nasty, while the COSM modeling sounded far warmer/more analog and closer to a real amp at that time.

Of course we all know what then happened, Roland/BOSS sat on their product and never updated it, COSM simply hasn't moved on and still has that cocked wah sound, while Pod's moved on in leaps and bounds and these days the HD series is p.good (it's the first one that I've liked).
 

uglybassplayer

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,456
First off, the AxSys 2x12 combo amp was Line 6's first modeler, around 1996. It was pretty expensive at the time, don't recall the price though.

The POD 1 bean was released in either '97 or '98 for just between $400 and $500 IIR, which of course was worth more in 1997 dollars than 2012 dollars, but i wouldn't say it was in Kemper or Axe territory in terms of relative price.
 

uglybassplayer

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,456
The original Pod didn't blow my mind, back then I was using the BOSS and Roland digital modelers which were out quite a bit before the Pod in the mid 90's. I was using a Boss GX700 and tried out the Pod as lots of people were raving about it, but to me it sounded fizzy, thin and just nasty, while the COSM modeling sounded far warmer/more analog and closer to a real amp at that time.

Of course we all know what then happened, Roland/BOSS sat on their product and never updated it, COSM simply hasn't moved on and still has that cocked wah sound, while Pod's moved on in leaps and bounds and these days the HD series is p.good (it's the first one that I've liked).
I beg to differ... I won't debate as to whether or not it sounded better than COSM, but it was the first small portable table top device that modeled specific amps and cabinets as opposed to the somewhat generic "Clean", "Crunch", "Modern", etc. models that other companies had... That's what blew people's minds.
 

pureanalog

Member
Messages
123
so how was the term 'modelling' coined? I know that Roland has been using it since the 90s at least for analog synth sounds.
 

pureanalog

Member
Messages
123
I beg to differ... I won't debate as to whether or not it sounded better than COSM, but it was the first small portable table top device that modeled specific amps and cabinets as opposed to the somewhat generic "Clean", "Crunch", "Modern", etc. models that other companies had... That's what blew people's minds.

I think gx700 had those amp names too.
 

dhdfoster

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
13,095
It definitely blew my mind. I had just started writing songs for the first time and I had a Yamaha minidisc 8 track(that was WAY cool for the time!) and I was completely frustrated trying to get good direct tones from a Sansamp 2 and Digitech RP something. I had never been so excited to get my hands on a brand new piece of equipment. Shopping online wasn't as advanced as it is now, so I was literally calling Guitar Centers around the country to try and order one.

When I finally got one, I wasn't disappointed at all. For the sounds I was going for, it worked very well and I kept it for years.
 

Pietro

2-Voice Guitar Junkie and All-Around Awesome Guy
Messages
16,441
Sansamp was the first serious modeler imho.

POD did in fact blow my mind.
 

Wildwind

Member
Messages
1,718
I agree, Peter - but I think the Tech 21 stuff was all analog. I'm thinking the Boss GT-5 predated the POD 2.0. I had a GT-3 around that time (which I believe was actually a later device than the -5) that replaced a small rack setup (Digitech 2101 and some other stuff), then converted to the POD. But yeah, the first POD really got my attention. To this day, though I no longer play PODs, I think they are huge fun. I played a ton of worship services, a number of seminars, and dozens of sessions with my PODs. If the 2.0 wasn't the first, I think it definitely set the standard at its introduction.
 

mdme_sadie

Member
Messages
549
I beg to differ... I won't debate as to whether or not it sounded better than COSM, but it was the first small portable table top device that modeled specific amps and cabinets as opposed to the somewhat generic "Clean", "Crunch", "Modern", etc. models that other companies had... That's what blew people's minds.
Nope, the Roland and BOSS units used real names and were attempts to model real amps, they were out a good couple of years before the Line6 stuff. The GX700 was 96, the VG-8 was the year before, 95, the GX700 was BOSS' first foray into using the bigger brother Rolands COSM stuff, had a fantastic array of effects too.

In response to the OP neither the POD nor the BOSS were comparable price wise to the Axe or Kemper, even adjusting for inflation. The Roland VG system was more expensive than the Axe or Kemper though.
 

shasha

Member
Messages
1,207
I still have my VG8 which I paid near $3000 for back in the early to mid 90's when it first hit the streets.
 

drwiddly

Member
Messages
392
I had a Pod 2.0 (which I upgraded to 2.3) and I did a fair amount of recording and a few gigs with it too. I never really liked the crunch sounds from it though and felt the same about the Pod xt I had later. I've had a Guitarport on my desk for years and I really like the sounds I get with that so have come to the conclusion that the dsp chips in the earlier Pods add a nasty, digital tonality which the PC software avoids.

I still have a 'Witch doctor' Voodu Valve and gig it regularly - great unit for those big rock tones from the 80's and 90's. The Pod's never came close to what the old VV can do IMHO.
 

AdInfinitum

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
802
Line6 had AmpFarm which was a ProTools plugin prior to the Pod. It also had the Ax212 amps which (i believe) were based on Amp Farm. I believe the Pod was a hardware version of the AmpFarm software with additional model (the 1.0 version had 16 amp model, 2.0 doubled that), as well as basic FX.
 

rezidentura

Member
Messages
551
I remember when the POD came out, because I bought one. At the time I really wanted the AxSYS, or the Johnson amp can't remember the name I think it was called a millenium. The johnson sounded better from what I remembered. I think they were in the low 1000.00 range with the Axsys maybe sub thousand and the Johnson being a couple hundred above.

I wound up buying a Fender solid state tube hybrid head and cabinet and the pod was used into the front. This was the first modeling I started really experiencing.
 

Rod

Tone is Paramount
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
22,357
I thought that Johnson amp came out first.
I was one of the first Line 6 dealers at the time and sold quite a few of their original flextone amps alongside my stock of Top Hats, Victorias and Carr amps.
They were fairly impressive till you got them in a live band mix and then their sound disappeared.
 

moonblack

Member
Messages
237
Does the Johnson J-Station count?
I remember when the POD came out, because I bought one. At the time I really wanted the AxSYS, or the Johnson amp can't remember the name I think it was called a millenium. The johnson sounded better from what I remembered. I think they were in the low 1000.00 range with the Axsys maybe sub thousand and the Johnson being a couple hundred above.

I wound up buying a Fender solid state tube hybrid head and cabinet and the pod was used into the front. This was the first modeling I started really experiencing.
+1 i tremonti like this stuff
 

JamonGrande

Member
Messages
1,670
so how was the term 'modelling' coined? I know that Roland has been using it since the 90s at least for analog synth sounds.
Modeling was a pretty common term for a lot of academic synthesis work in the 1980s, simulating instruments as series of components (resonator size, string vibrations, vibrating membranes, etc.). To give you a sense, check out this wikipedia article on modeling of string vibrations. The Yamaha VL-1 and Korg Wavedrum were two of the first (if not the first) publicly sold modeling instruments.

In terms of digital modeling, I believe the VG-8 was the first. Johnson gear appeared after (and after the POD as well). The Millenium amp was essentially a Digitech 2112 in amplifier format. Rockman and Samsamp gear, while simulating amplifiers, used transistor tech. The only item that may predate the VG-8 could be the earliest Zoom headphone amps, but I don't know if they were digital devices, or digital control/display of analog circuits. I'm increasingly starting think Zoom may be first, but haven't researched the Zoom pieces enough. That said, the VG-8 was closest to the synthesis techniques I described above, particularly in the HRM and guitar models.

When I was gigging with a VG-8, most people didn't get it. They thought I was using a guitar synth that triggered guitar samples. The idea of algorithms "synthesizing" guitar tones was pretty out there.

joe
 




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