West Coast Blues Thread Version 4.0

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Sweetfinger, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. fretshop

    fretshop Silver Supporting Member

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    Everything got sent either to Japan or Clark AB for maintenance. The F-4 and B-52 electronics were always an immediate priority, but out on patrol, radios and other electronic equipment was a beg, borrow or steal situation, espcially with the PRC-25 field system ("Prick 25). When I got to Clark...tI was amazed to see an enormous shop with all kinds of stuff.....guys were building stereos in their spare time. In the computer section we had 100 IBM 360s...they threw off so much heat from the tubes, that we had to keep the thermostat at below 50 degrees. In Italy...the computers actually heated the compound during the winter...TUBES !!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2009
  2. fretshop

    fretshop Silver Supporting Member

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    Spinning right now: "Tamiz". Javier Mas on Banduria, Archelaud and Laud. Jordi Rallo on percussion. Nice listening over dinner, or even a relaxing road trip.
     
  3. pete kanaras

    pete kanaras Member

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    steve earle's "el corazon" at the moment.
    as close to an absolutely perfect record as i've ever heard. unbelieveably great record
     
  4. Scott Miller

    Scott Miller Member

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    Spinning: Cartola, traditional old samba singer, accompanied by guitar, trombone, and a mess of drums. Kind of interesting how the bass duties are held down by a drum going "bwooom... bwoom... bwoom..."

    Andy Santana sat in with us the other night. I always liked his singing a lot, but there's this thing where you don't really know how good someone is until you're on stage with them. Yowza! Made me think about fretshop playing with Otis Rush: I can't even imagine taking in the full stage-monitor impact of Otis Rush.
     
  5. hasserl

    hasserl Member

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    See, this is the stuff that gets me. 60 bucks for a freakin cap!!! In a subtractive circuit no less. Guys, the cap adds nothing to the signal, it's not even in the signal path (i.e. between the pickups and the jack). It seems all too eerily close to the snake oil audiphoolery of the hi end hifi world. And once the band strikes up, good luck picking out the detail that 60 dollar cap bought you. (just did a jam yesterday, the backline choice was a ss Fender Stage 100 or an Epiphone Valve Jr. Good thing I didn't worry too much about which caps were in the tone circuit in my guitar)
     
  6. fretshop

    fretshop Silver Supporting Member

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    Full Stage Impact of Otis Rush : L-O-U-D. Otis loved to Crank My Mesa 2-B with two EVM 12-Ls to the point where it hurt, even in the monitors. I always tried to find a non-lethal spot during rehearsals, and would move my rig out of way of the sonic blast. I've got some pics of Otis and me on my site, if you care to check it out. The great thing about traveling with "O-T" was that I received several years of intense and priceless guitar lessons. He was a gracious teacher, and was very patient. He often reminded me of the Nuns in Catholic school...I'd receive a sharp and stinging rap on the hand if I wasn't getting it, or not listening intently enough.
     
  7. Goldie295

    Goldie295 Senior Member

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    Going vid crazy since getting that Flip HD Ultra Duke recommended. Recorded my first gig on Saturday. Thought I had it sussed until I realised I'd chopped my head off - oh well. Side Tracked didn't come out too badly, if you have three minutes:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edRq1kX5Yus

    Cheers,
    Phil
     
  8. valcotone

    valcotone Silver Supporting Member

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    To me, it's not what the cap ADDs to the circuit, but what it takes away when you roll down the tone control... that seems to vary a little from cap type to type. Some caps behave better in that they take away the "right" stuff... in my experience anyway. I don't buy $60 caps either, but do like the $2-3 Russian P-I-O ones I linked to (which have been reported to be similar to or exactly the ones repackaged in the Luxe bumble bee and grey tiger reissues - not to be confused with the Gibson "reissues"). I also have some original .02uF Grey Tigers from the 50's that worked really well in a few guitars... I scored a bunch and gave away some to lots of fellas here (that was a couple of years ago).

    Even with the tone control turned up all the way, the tone cap and pot are still in the circuit, but I don't know if I've ever heard a difference between cap types in that scenario, but lots of guys report that it does. I think it just comes down to some guys can hear a difference in cap type, and others can't (or do but not enough that it makes a difference).
     
  9. valcotone

    valcotone Silver Supporting Member

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  10. hasserl

    hasserl Member

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    Thanks Valcotone, I appreciate your response, and I respect your knowledge.

    I'm still a skeptic, but that's OK, that's my nature. I don't think you can hear any difference with the Tone control on 10, but I can see how different cap types could give a different response rate per degree of rotation of the tone pot. I think that the overwhelming effect on tone has got to be capacitance value, though I understand that there could be some non-linearity in the response of some caps, the worst being ceramic discs, that may effect the sound audibly. But I tend to think that if one .022 cap sounds different from another, that difference is bound to be very subtle, and small adjustment of the tone pot should be all it takes to compensate.

    But again, I haven't experimented, so take all this with a grain of salt. I'm just thinking out loud. I do think that in the context of a band the subtle differences become lost. So many variables will have a much greater degree of effect on what you're hearing. But in the end, it's all good. Just not 60 dollar caps, good grief!
     
  11. Sweetfinger

    Sweetfinger Silver Supporting Member

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    The cap debate has been done to death on more technical forums. The problem with trading out caps is that they are almost never exactly the value printed on them, and older ones, especially, may be leaky. In order to do any meaningful test, you HAVE to take a bunch of caps and measure them all for leakage and value before listening.
    I've measured a bunch of old bumblebee caps and they're all over the place, measuring from .018 to .026. If you paid 100+ bucks for some of those and put them in a modern guitar and HEARD an improvement, could you be absolutely sure that you're hearing a hundred bucks worth of vintage mojo, or just hearing the difference in cap value, which you could have changed for 25 cents?
    Another warning: I've seen "vintage bumblebee" caps offered over the web that are re-striped. Not even close to the stated value. You wouldn't know unless you've got a meter that reads capacitance. I've got red model paint and a bucket of old caps. There is certainly financial incentive to re-stripe 'em and sell them to suckers. Fortunately I was raised right. Other folks, possibly not raised the same. Caveat emptor.
    I guess my point is that when you're comparing caps, you're ALWAYS comparing apples and oranges. Just try not to pay 60 bucks for a rotten moldy orange from the 50's that might not even BE an orange, but a Grapefruit that's been spray painted orange.
     
  12. bluesjuke

    bluesjuke Disrespected Elder

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    Good to see Phil.
    Are you using both amps together there?
    I'm digging that sound you're getting.
     
  13. Goldie295

    Goldie295 Senior Member

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    Yes that is a Champ and a Deluxe together. Venue wasn't big enough to use two Deluxes. Really like the sound of two amps together. Gonna try a Deluxe and a Pro at the next gig. I don't switch, just keep 'em both on all night.
     
  14. bluesjuke

    bluesjuke Disrespected Elder

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    They do compliment each other very well!
     
  15. fretshop

    fretshop Silver Supporting Member

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    A pal of mine owns a Capacitor distributorship here in New Jersey. I buy alot of stuff from him, and have the luxury of being able to use his test equipment. What I use in the shop are either rated at NPO (0 - 1% Tolerance), or 5%. I reject everything else so that I'll have a consistent platform, or benchmark to work from. Same thing goes with potentiometers. I meter them and mark them with their true reading, and only in rare instances do I dismantle a pot and work on the carbon or cermet path to adjust the value. Depending on the materials of manufacture...I like the "response" (for lack of a better term) of certain brands more than others. As I mentioned several posts ago (if I didn't delete it) was that I can hear subtle differences with certain components, including different brands of potentiometers when voicing a guitar for a particular amp. Also, a combination of components that sound good with one amp might sound bad when we change the pickups, or the amp tubes. It's all subjective. Like "Bluesjuke" I attended an excellent electronics school while in the military. Theory and testing dictated one thing...as an example, Linear vs. Audio taper on controls...linear looks perfect on the scope...but the human ear does not discern the function, and comprehends audio taper as incrementally pleasing, while theory and the electronic scope infer something else.

    When I started at Dan Armstrong's original shop in NYC, it was he that fostered the whole idea of Caps/pots/resistors/pickups,tubes/amp design as inter-related functions. He told me to ignore the meter and listen. Now...as humans, we're not perfect machines...we do not all maintain the same sensory perception. I hope that some of what I wrote will help us here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  16. valcotone

    valcotone Silver Supporting Member

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    Yeah! I had the same experience with the old .02uF Grey Tiger stash I mentioned above. I bought a couple-hundred (very cheaply) and they varied from around .018 way up to .040uF... most were around .028 to .03uF. I didn't have any method to test them for leakage however.
     
  17. michael30

    michael30 Gold Supporting Member

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    Which guitars would that be? I still have the two you sent me a couple of years ago. I've been saving them for some special keeper guitar. I suppose I should use them before I forget I have them.
     
  18. valcotone

    valcotone Silver Supporting Member

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    hi Michael,

    They worked really well in an Edwards P90 LPGT with Lollars (sold), a Tokai P90 LPGT with Wolfetone P90s (which I still have), and even a parts strat with Don Mare pickups. The grey tigers were original equipment on Gibson guitars from the late-40s through to mid-50s I believe.

    The Tokai in particular (with stock pots and 50s wiring) allows for some amazing fat rolled-off tones! With my tweed Tremolux cranked up I can go from a raunchy tone to nice and sweet just from the guitar. The stock caps and wiring did not perform that way.

    I wasn't going to post this, but here's an MP3 demo I did for Wolfetone with this guitar and the GT caps... all tonal changes are just from the guitar, I didn't touch the Tremolux controls. It sort of goes from rawkin' to more bluesy...
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  19. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Administrator ^/|\^ Co-Founder of TGP Staff Member

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    Time for 5.0 you crazy West Coast Blues Thread folks!
     
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