Wet/Dry Level Problems

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by LarryLeGrand, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    Hey TGP,

    yesterday i set up my first Wet/Dry rig after having read almost every Thread on Wet/Dry rigs i could find. I wanted to bring out the delay nicely without a Loop or anything.
    So here is the simplified Signal-Chain:
    Guitar -> Buffer -> Lehle Little Dual SGOS splitting the signal into A and B
    A: Wah -> Compression -> Drives -> Amp A
    B: Boost -> Delays -> Reverb -> Amp B
    Now my Problem is: Without reverb or delay i like the ability of blending the two amps together. Little Drive on Amp A, Clean sound on Amp B is great and punchy. But when i engage a Delay or Reverb, the sound broadens to a nice stereo image but i lose all the punch. I like both sounds but the sudden change is not really practicable.
    Is there a solution for this or is the Problem that i am practically switching from double-mono to real-stereo by engaging a delay or reverb on Channel B?!
    The Delays used are a Diamond Memory Lane 2 and a Boss DD-6, the Reverb is a Mr Black Eterna Gold.
    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  2. imbuedblue

    imbuedblue Member

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    Normally with a W/D setup, the delays and reverbs are set to pass only wet signal. When wet effects are bypassed, all output is from the dry side. If you want to blend the dry sounds of both amps, you might want to add a volume pedal or two to your setup.
     
  3. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    I tried that and it is a lot better, although i miss the blending option. How does your idea with volume pedals work? Thanks a lot!
     
  4. imbuedblue

    imbuedblue Member

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    Stick a volume pedal at the end of the chain on each side so you can blend the two amps on the fly.
     
  5. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    I can blend them with the Lehle so that is almost as comfortable as having 2 Volume Pedals.
    So when people are using W/D oder W/D/W Rigs, and play songs without Delay or Reverb, the W's are completely silent?!
     
  6. imbuedblue

    imbuedblue Member

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  7. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    That's kinda sad... ;-)
    Thanks a lot for your help!!
     
  8. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    Playing around with the Lehle, i found out that flipping the phase solves the issue. But then the dry/dry config has cancellations...
     
  9. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Member

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    There are a number of different ways to do the Wet/dry thing. I also have the Lehel Dual SGoS and it's a great pedal for this.

    For myself when running wet/dry I'm usually running a line out of one amp into my time domain effects and sending that signal to a secondary power amp so my time domain effects are processing the output stage of the first amp.

    You have a few things to consider. In your case you are going into the front end of two amps? While the Lehle can solve the issue of the two amps polarity (or phase as some call it) many times various effects will flip the phase when turned on and off. To me it's usually best if you are going to be turning on and off things like boosts, compressors, OD's etc those will work best before the Lehle so if certain effects do flip the phase as long as the Lehle has corrected that for both amps there won't be an issue since both amps are always receiving the same basic signal.

    In your case if you have your wet efx going to amp B and switch them on and off you can wind up with phase issues every time the efx are turned on and off. You can easily find out which efx stay in phase and which don't by trial and error using the Lehle's polarity switch to hear the difference in real time.

    Some guys like to run a 100% wet signal into the wet amp and just adjust the mix by the volume of the wet amp. I prefer running mixed into the secondary amp to keep the overall volume more consistent. To me the best way to run delays is in a parallel loop where the delay send goes to the input of a volume pedal and the output goes into the loop. This way you have real time control of your delay level like you would in the studio using a fader. This is the approach Steve Morse has used for years.
     
  10. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    Thanks tech21nyc!
    I figured the polarity flip now, there is a list on TGP about those pedals. I can maneuvre around phase issues e.g. by engaging a boost on channel A when engaging a delay on Channel B. This is not really a practical thing to do...
    My problem with your idea is that both amps i am using or planning to use do not have parallel effect loops! I might change that with a custom amp that is currently being built. The builder will probably kill me for changing my mind once more, haha! Until today i never really had a need for effect loops, never used such a complex rig. But once everything is in phase, it sounds so wonderful!
     
  11. DaveKS

    DaveKS Member

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    I like having a few certain pedals out front of a/b so that their sounds go to both amp, I'd for sure put comp and one or two drives up front, and then work on finding which drives/boost work best for each side to differentiate them.

    Also don't ignore doing true stereo if you've got mod delay pedals that are stereo in and out, the thickness it can provide is huge.

    As you've found out, maybe those pedals that do switch your phase would be more practical using them ahead of the splitter, you'll get rid of that "works great till I switch on this drive" problem.
     
  12. soundbee

    soundbee Member

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    The "phase" thing that you're hearing may be the latency of digital convertors. I didn't see above what delay you're using. However, something like the Eventide H9 or Timefactor will do an AD/DA conversion of your signal. This conversion will introduce a bit of latency ... and therefore your out of phase sound. What you can do in this case is get a "parallel loop" pedal (BOSS LS-2 can is a good utility pedal that can be used as such) and place the delay in "Kill Dry" mode. This way only the delay signal will be fed into the parallel loop and your main signal is never converted and has no latency.
     
  13. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    In this case i have it with a Diamond Memory Lane 2 which is analog AFAIK. They introduced a pedal to solve the issues with Stereo Setups but i don't want to spend another 200€ on that...
     
  14. LarryLeGrand

    LarryLeGrand Member

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    Yeah, i plan on experimenting a bit, but having a mono delay on both amps won't really open up things. I guess the three options are a) pedal dancing to react on phase issues, b) an effects loop and a "slave" amp, c) stop trying to be a stadion rockstar and play with one amp like for the past 20 years :JAM
     
  15. DaveKS

    DaveKS Member

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    Mono delay on each amp can sound huge, you just have to dial it in. Either set them for a few ms off from on another or far enough time wise you get the ping/pong.

    As far as phase issues, most from what describing are induced by your choice of placement. Find the ones that cause phase issues, use them before the Y, others that don't, you can use them before Y or put them after to differentiate or bring that amp forward.

    I've been doing stereo and w/d/w for over 20yrs and phase issues are the exception rather than the rule. Mostly use your main drives pre Y, then use EQ, boost and light OD on each side to bring a specific amp/tone to the front.

    Use your amps/speakers character to differentiate the sides, keep 80% of your drive pedals out front then use EQ/boost/light OD that work in those positions to give them extra punch, stack your drives.
     

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