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Wet/Dry/Wet....wow!

Occam

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,225
I can't believe I haven't done this sooner. I've been using a stereo rig for a couple of years now, a pair of Sunn Concert Leads, each into their own Mesa Thiele (EV 12L) cab and a Thiele 1x15 (EV 15L) but I was hearing Pete Thorn talk about wet/dry/wet a lot so I figured I'd look into it. I decided to make my Matamp non-master 120 the dry but the middle, run my last Eventide H9 as a kill-dry so I only got 100% wet/stereo signal. Added a Radial Twin City ABY box, no hum, no phase issues and just monster, monster tones. I just need to fully have that translate to the recordings I'm working on but it's the most beautiful guitar tone I've ever hear in person. Now, I mainly do ambient/doom/noise stuff...mostly instrumental, sometimes with a free-jazz drummer and sax, so it's very textural like heavy metal Brian Eno or Glenn Branca with Sunn O))) (the band, well and the amps too). It took awhile to test the phase on 3 amps and cabs and I double mic'd the center cal. Thankfully I have matching heads, cabs and mic's for the stereo rig....just so insanely lush.

 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
3,322
Right on! It is a revelation, isn't it? Congratulations.
I've been playing W/D/W for a few years now (solo at home studio) and the gains are exponential.

My rig is basically a couple Fender CyberTwins as the Dry (Dual MONO) and a Tech21 PE60 and a Fender Princeton 65 as the wets. I get my KILL DRY from a Masotti MXM line mixer; I don't have any pedals beyond MIDI controllers and a DigiTech WH-1 which I seldom use. My FX are Lexicon PCM80 and PCM81.

My rig is all solid state power and I am currently shopping to go all tube with three or four 4x12 cabs. I'm researching TGP to review others' WDW setups. I've always said that using different amps and cabs adds to the WDW experience; so now I'm planning to put that to the test and try the same amps and cabs for the whole rig. I really want a Diezel Herbert as my DRY...but that would eat the whole budget...so working to figure out how to go. So far I have a VHT 2562 in mind....but 6L6 might be a mistake to start off with....I might have to change to 2902...
 
Messages
258
Cool rig! I’m sure it‘s a blast to play.

Quick question. You running your modulation(flanger and phaser) through your wet amps. While I’m sure you get the full effect when using only the mod pedals, what happens when you use the fully wet delay or reverb? Does the mod only effect the trails?

Also, there is room for like 5 more fuzz pedals on there, so get on it.
 

Steve Y.

Member
Messages
716
Related question, so as to not start a new thread- I have three amps at my disposal- a Mesa MkIV combo, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and Mesa Satellite 60. Would it be the correct approach to a W/D/W rig to run into the front end of the Mark IV, effects send to my time based effects which include a stereo split, then left stereo out to Hot Rod Deluxe “power amp in” (effects return) and right stereo out to Satellite 60 effects return? Am I missing anything important here?
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
3,322
Related question, so as to not start a new thread- I have three amps at my disposal- a Mesa MkIV combo, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and Mesa Satellite 60. Would it be the correct approach to a W/D/W rig to run into the front end of the Mark IV, effects send to my time based effects which include a stereo split, then left stereo out to Hot Rod Deluxe “power amp in” (effects return) and right stereo out to Satellite 60 effects return? Am I missing anything important here?
Possible ground loops and level matching issues.
Does the MKIV SEND just split out from the amp's pre and still feed the power section? or do you require a RETURN? This MK IV has a SLAVE out with level control...
no the SLAVE out is a DI

The MK IV manual says the Satellite and FX Loop sections are designed for use with the Satellite 60...you need to check out the manual: looks like it is designed to feed the satellite from the FX RETURNS....but I don't really know.
 
Last edited:

Steve Y.

Member
Messages
716
Possible ground loops and level matching issues.
Does the MKIV SEND just split out from the amp's pre and still feed the power section? or do you require a RETURN?
Great question- I have no idea! I think I can run it without a return but will check that out.
 

The Killing Joke

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
335
I’ve been tempted to try it for sure. Easier to do in my Axe though simply because of phase and levels. I’ve always wanted to try a real WDW rig though. Although EVH used it love it is pretty impractical live as the sound won’t translate especially if you are more than a 3 piece but call me envious.
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
3,322
Great question- I have no idea! I think I can run it without a return but will check that out.
I was just looking at the manual: looks like they might have you covered....the manual talks about using the FX RETURNs to feed a Satellite for STEREO.
For WDW, you might have to just use the FX Loop send to feed FX and then FX outs to your powered speakers; that way, tho...you could be facing ground loop and level issues...
 

Rusty Dutch

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
864
I love it, but it’s impractical live, at least in the tiny venues I play(ed).

Bought the GigRig G3 recently and that’s made life a lot easier - I can run stereo or wet/dry with just a little bit of configuration on the G3 presets.
 

Steve Y.

Member
Messages
716
I was just looking at the manual: looks like they might have you covered....the manual talks about using the FX RETURNs to feed a Satellite for STEREO.
For WDW, you might have to just use the FX Loop send to feed FX and then FX outs to your powered speakers; that way, tho...you could be facing ground loop and level issues...
I ended up trying it today with the setup I mentioned above. There were in fact ground loop and level issues. Putting a cheap hum eliminator box in the line between the reverb output and the Hot Rod Deluxe 'power amp in' jack solved the ground hum issue, and I ended up putting my TC Spark also in that line to use primarily as a 'master volume', with the side benefit being that I now have the ability to control the left 'W' amp volume right at my feet, along with ability to do minor EQ tweaks and add some grit via the Spark.
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
3,322
I ended up trying it today with the setup I mentioned above. There were in fact ground loop and level issues. Putting a cheap hum eliminator box in the line between the reverb output and the Hot Rod Deluxe 'power amp in' jack solved the ground hum issue, and I ended up putting my TC Spark also in that line to use primarily as a 'master volume', with the side benefit being that I now have the ability to control the left 'W' amp volume right at my feet, along with ability to do minor EQ tweaks and add some grit via the Spark.
that's great! how did it sound?

Yeah, I always want level control after the outputs of each of the wet FX. I want to hit the inputs to the FX at line level because I think the FX sound better lighting up the yellow of the input meters; inputs hitting at -20dB I find lacking...mixers, mixers, mixers!
 

Steve Y.

Member
Messages
716
that's great! how did it sound?

Yeah, I always want level control after the outputs of each of the wet FX. I want to hit the inputs to the FX at line level because I think the FX sound better lighting up the yellow of the input meters; inputs hitting at -20dB I find lacking...mixers, mixers, mixers!
It sounded pretty good! It's certainly a fine balancing act to get the wet amps at the appropriate level relative to the dry/master amp, all while keeping the overall volume at a level that doesn't hurt the ears or send the wife and cat running for their lives. It was great hearing the unaffected tone from the Mark IV with the time-based effects separated from it. There is a lot more focus and clarity, especially when running the high-gain channel. The last pedal in the chain is a Source Audio Collider so I was awash in plenty of ping-ponging delay and huge reverb. Planning to plug my Eventide Space in line next time and see how it does.
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
3,322
It sounded pretty good! It's certainly a fine balancing act to get the wet amps at the appropriate level relative to the dry/master amp, all while keeping the overall volume at a level that doesn't hurt the ears or send the wife and cat running for their lives. It was great hearing the unaffected tone from the Mark IV with the time-based effects separated from it. There is a lot more focus and clarity, especially when running the high-gain channel. The last pedal in the chain is a Source Audio Collider so I was awash in plenty of ping-ponging delay and huge reverb. Planning to plug my Eventide Space in line next time and see how it does.
yeah, especially with distortion sounds...makes it ok to wash reverb with dry not getting diluted, eh?

Yeah, the level management can have you scratching your head pretty quick...that was the thing that had me feeling helpless when I rekindled tinkering with multiAmp setups in 2017. Nowadays I have it down to just a few knobs to balance the signals quickly...but it has taken a few years and many hours with routing diagrams to get a handle on it.
 

Occam

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,225
Cool rig! I’m sure it‘s a blast to play.

Quick question. You running your modulation(flanger and phaser) through your wet amps. While I’m sure you get the full effect when using only the mod pedals, what happens when you use the fully wet delay or reverb? Does the mod only effect the trails?

Also, there is room for like 5 more fuzz pedals on there, so get on it.
So I've only fully used a wet reverb and delay since I keep the last H9 on kill/dry which means if it's not on, then those amps are silent. I played around with the flanger set super deep and it sounded amazing. the analog delay was getting a bit lost so I'll play around with dialing that in but I might swap it for something else and stick to the H9's for delay. The phaser also sounded really great especially when ran really deep.
If I was gigging I'd have more dirt pedals but what I did was bring a bunch down and just swapped them when needed as I was recording.
 

Occam

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,225
I love it, but it’s impractical live, at least in the tiny venues I play(ed).

Bought the GigRig G3 recently and that’s made life a lot easier - I can run stereo or wet/dry with just a little bit of configuration on the G3 presets.
You could go with 3 champs or something. I'm just doing solo stuff and collaborations these days but at the clubs my bands played it, it would be fine. I always used a full stack then but the bay area metal scene, especially doom metal was always into seeing bands that played really loud even at tiny clubs.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Member
Messages
596
This is my W/D/W rig. Peavey Classic 50 410 + 115E, with Carvin XV212 100-watt combos for L&R wet signal. It's a good idea for your wet signal amplifiers to have extra headroom, generally speaking. The headroom on the Carvin X amp's clean channel is legendary.

 




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