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What app are guys like, Tim Pierce and Rick Beato using to isolate different parts in songs?

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by cyguitar, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. cyguitar

    cyguitar Member

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    It would be an incredible help to me, as a cover band guitarist. I can slow songs down on Youtube or Riffmaster Pro, but I can't isolate the different parts in the mix. What are they using, or what do any of you use, that allows you to isolate parts?
     
  2. JonR

    JonR Member

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    You can't isolate different instruments out of any normal stereo mix. You can sometimes reduce the levels of some instruments so that others stand out a little more, using EQ, panning, or phase switching.
    Transcribe software - https://www.seventhstring.com/xscribe/screenshots.html - lets you do all that. Of course it slows down and allows looping too (more easily than youtube or audio editing software like Audacity).
    Tips:
    To hear the bass line (to help identify chords), raise the octave. Bass jumps out clear as day. (The program enables "bass select" in its EQ section, but I don't find that as useful. None of those EQ presets are much use in my experience. The instruments one typically wants hear share their part of the frequency spectrum with others.)
    To remove anything panned dead centre (typically lead vocal and bass), use the "Mono/karaoke" page, selecting "out of phase". Panning on that tab can sometimes help hear certain instruments better, but you will never be able isolate any single one - not unless it's panned hard right or left and nothing else is.
    The program will also help identify chords (by selecting single beats on the waveform), but given some theory knowledge and a reasonable ear you can probably do as well, if not better. (You can usually trust the first chord given, in that little chord box on the right, but it's not 100% reliable. At least, when the audio is confusing, the program doesn't try to offer a close guess, like Riffstation does. Never trust Riffstation!) Here's where the Tuning tab is useful for tuning the track to concert if necessary (the "cents" slider), so the chord-guessing function has the clearest sound to work from.

    To truly separate individual instruments, you need access to original multitrack recordings - or to multitrack re-creations of original recordings designed for learning purposes (not sure how you find those). People like Pierce and Beato make use of highly trained musical ears!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  3. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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  4. jkendrick

    jkendrick Member

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    There are some isolated tracks for various popular songs that can be found. They are usually derived from video games like Guitar Hero.
     
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  5. lendryesky

    lendryesky Member

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    Kind of reminds me of those made-up technologies in TV/movies about detective or CSI work where they have a recording and at the press of a button they can isolate a barely audible voice in the background.
     
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  6. jkendrick

    jkendrick Member

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    Right. I didn’t mean to imply those guys are using video game tracks; just that they are available for many tunes that have been featured in those types of video games.
     
  7. cyguitar

    cyguitar Member

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    I remember Pete Thorn saying he used, I believe he said transcribe to help him with songs he needs to learn as a side man. I will have to see if I can find the video, or Pete, if you're around, maybe you can chime in.
     
  8. fr8_trane

    fr8_trane Supporting Member

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    Rick Beato is using the original multitracks! The only question is where the hell is he getting them from?
     
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  9. Mooselake

    Mooselake Member

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    I thought about writing Beato and asking him, but he doesn't have an email address on his web page. Interesting if he is using copies of the original multitracks just because of the diversity of stuff he presents in "What makes this song great"--stuff recorded over a few decades (going well back into the analog tape era) in many studios for many labels. If there's digitized versions of all that, too bad they're not generally available for purchase.

    I've only had it about 6 months but I agree with Stox above. Tanscribe! is my most valuable tool right now. I use it daily and find playing along with original slowed-down recordings immensely valuable. If only something like that was around when I was 14! I haven't had occasion to spend any time trying to filter/isolate though. Just slowing down without overwhelming artifacts really helps in overcoming ears made of stone.
     
  10. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    They Googled 'multi-tracks'.
     
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  11. muzishun

    muzishun Member

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    You and Ed are wrong not sure if serious.

    The source is friends.
     
  12. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    I don't have friends that cool. I found them with Google. Pretty easy.
     
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  13. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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  14. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Yes cause everyone is dying to give out their stuff...we must be in different industries.
     
  15. Vic Interceptor

    Vic Interceptor Member

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    They are probably using that new invention of Paul Reed Smith and his dad. It is so good, the US military is their biggest customer.
     
  16. jammybastard

    jammybastard "I'm losing my edge, but I was there..."

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    No, that’s a load of bunkaroo. I like Rick’s passion, but he’s not getting these due to some insider status. He’s getting them from files pirates posted to torrents 5-8 years ago.

    I’ve worked in the “industry” since the 80s. Studios, touring, radio, video, etc...
    Here’s the fact:
    Multitrack mixes are protected like gold (the UMG fire being the exception).
    They are the intellectual property of the labels and the artists and are not given out for use on YouTube.
    If they were you’d see a lot more people, with better connections than Rick,
    doing the same thing.
    The exceptions are the actual producers or mix engineers who worked on the sessions...which Rick did not.

    Where does Rick get these stems?

    Rick is using multitrack stems that were ripped from the Guitar Hero and Rockband games years ago and then circulated via torrent and cyberlockers.
    (All the YouTube channels that post Isolated Guitar Tracks are using the same files)

    They are called “MOGG” files. Google it.
    It stands for “Multitrack OggVorbis”.
    The original multitrack stems were created from the masters for the Rockband and Guitar Hero games.
    Pirates ripped the multitrack audio files were from the game discs and converted to MOGG for easy distro via the internet.

    Open a MOGG file in Audacity and you will see 4-8 stems with individual instruments.
    From there you can convert each track to .wav, mp3, FLAC, etc...

    Example: Remember “The Beatles: Rockband”?
    Well here are all the multitracks: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0-3z16eSgqHdXNqUmVybWIybGM
    These files were prepared for the game by George Martin’s son Giles, direct from the vaults.

    I have a 5TB hard drive full of EVERY MOGG that was ripped and pirated. It’s hundreds of tracks.

    There was a Pro Tools demo disc with a couple of multitracks sessions, Christina Aguilera’s “Genie in a Bottle” was one, that someone pilfered from Avid at a trade show, ripped and uploaded to torrent a few years ago but that was the only other “pro” source I had heard about.

    Want to know what MOGGs are out there? Let me get you started:

    https://multitrackdownloads.blogspot.com/2012/03/list-of-all-mogg-files.html


    Want to play MOGGS and remix your favorite albums? Start your own YT channel?



    https://www.joshuacasper.com/ableton-tutorials/working-with-mogg-files/

    Enjoy!


    PS - I posted on TGP about MOGGs about 7-8 yrs ago and almost got suspended for
    “promoting piracy”.
    Funny how times have changed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
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  17. rumbletone

    rumbletone Silver Supporting Member

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    I suspect they are using their ears and their brains? Sure some parts are so low in the mix they may be difficult to hear, but otherwise they transcribe them just like musicians were doing decades before the internet and online tabs or before rock or jazz transcriptions were readily available from publishers.

    By the time I started playing guitar in the 80s there was the odd transcription available in a guitar magazine, but the vast majority of what we learned we did by ear from the recordings. We had no isolated tracks or slow-down technology or internet tab sites or mobile apps.
     
  18. Darkburst

    Darkburst Member

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    Sometimes Rick has access to original tracks. I remember him breaking down Every Breath You Take by The Police and it had Sting’s scratch vocals with alternate lyrics.
     
  19. frdagaa

    frdagaa Supporting Member

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    I think the point he was trying to make is to answer the OP's question.

    With a highly informative post that answers what I've been wondering about with more insight than anything else I've ever read.

    So does anyone sense a backlash to using the MOGG files, or is it all just ok now because enough people are doing it? I'm the type of guy who is very against pirating. Back in college, all my fraternity brothers would borrow album, get a c-120 tape, and record one album on each side of the tape. Some accumulated big collections. Even that I never did because it just didn't seem right to me.

    But I like hearing song breakdowns with isolated tracks. It somehow seems better since it's for education and appreciation.
     
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  20. Mooselake

    Mooselake Member

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    I don't know about the legality/ethics of it, seems kinda gray. I'd happily pay legitimately to get them for a few of my all-time favorite records from back in the day. Not sure why the owners wouldn't make them available for students/collectors, especially those who have already sold copies to computer game companies a decade or more ago. Probably they have their reasons.
     
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