What are you planning to do with your Mooer pedals now?

jrockbridge

Member
Messages
4,474
OK - it must’ve been the fact that Mooer released about twenty or so pedals all at once in Australia that they took the spotlight. The range was bewildering and their practicality was initially suspect - too small, no battery, Chinese...and ironically, too expensive for their size!!

I see that VW, despite having incurred a multi-billion dollar fine for an emissions scandal and having an ignominious 80 year direct link to a past dictator, seem to be still in business. In fact, VW was the largest car maker in the world by 2017.

Mooer Uber Alles?
Perhaps, VW is sorry. Do you think Mooer is sorry?
 

coltonius

Señor Member
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,277
Where do you draw the line?

Perhaps, it’s based on some moral standards you apply evenly to all companies. From what I’ve seen, the moral standards are applied unevenly by many people.

Analogman pedals are Bluesbreaker, Fuzz Face, Ross circuits, etc. Perhaps, the later versions have enough tweaks to be considered somewhat transformative but most of the work was done by those who came before. Yet, they get a moral pass by most on TGP.

Copying is a part of everything we are in terms of art, music, literature, architecture and technology. Copying is how we learn. Nothing is created out of thin air. Nothing is truly original. Everything is built on what came before.

The principles of creation are copy, transform and combine. This is how we got here.

The most obvious example of this is modern computers. Everything that became the elements of modern computers started at Xerox. Apple copied those ideas. Microsoft copied from Apple.

Steve Jobs said that Apple was always shameless about copying ideas. Later, he said, “I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this.” Classic loss aversion.

In trying to navigate the moral aspects of guitar gear, I’ve found that players draw a jagged line between companies. Some companies get a pass while others get a fail. The reasons seem arbitrary. Yet all companies have an aspect of copying in their history. So, I avoid moral high ground and judge based on legal grounds.

Mooer has crossed a legal line. That’s where I draw the line.
I’m not against clones or innovative spinoffs driving technology forward. What I find hilarious is the “outrage” toward Mooer and general write offs now that they’ve been exposed for stealing software/code. I get that it’s wrong, but if you buy from a company that banks on reverse engineering pedals with no innovation (component wise) why is everyone suddenly surprised and outraged that they segued from analog to digital pedals?
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,847
I'll attach my one Mooer to a 5-00 hook and troll it like a spinner in Tillamook Bay for the Fall Chinook.
It's got an ugly green-chartreuse paint job that seems to outrage the local salmonids.
 

bsthetech

Member
Messages
640
Anyone who thinks Chinese products are original and above reproach is naive. They sell cheap reproductions and if it can connect to a network it’s probably spying on you. China doesn’t care about your copyright laws, privacy laws, or human rights. You can’t make sense of the situation using Western ideals.
 
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Messages
11,145
Anyone who thinks Chinese products are original and above reproach is naive. The sell cheap reproductions and if it can connect to a network it’s probably spying on you. China doesn’t care about your copyright laws, privacy laws, or human rights. You can’t make sense of the situation using Western ideals.
Today’s “oxymoron of the day” is “western ideals”. LOL
 

MoPho

Pho Shizzle
Supporting Member
Messages
5,614
Don't own any and never considered buying. Am I safe?

EDIT: I don't think this action comes close to addressing the level and impact of piracy that is really involved. This was a token move at the lowest common denominator. If it makes someone happy or rich, so be it. No offense to EHX but they don't matter at all as far as I'm concerned.
 
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ned7flat5

Member
Messages
4,500
....Honestly I don’t really know enough of the whole situation to make me swear off mooer. Who made the decision to copy the code? Was it a lone employee? Was it a executive decision?
To date the only inkling of all this intrigue seems to emanate from EHX.

Since I don’t expect to find the alleged decision on any accessible case archive, it might be useful to know the details.

It’s been quite the precedent if EHX has managed to prevail over a Chinese company in China.
 

drbob1

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
26,588
I don't own any Mooer pedals, they're overpriced! If you ever get to NAMM, head over to the chinese section (main floor, on the left as you come in, near the back). There are literally dozens of companies building the same basic boxes with similar names. I initially thought they were all the same company, but it turns out IP is stolen as soon as it's released over there so there are dozens of companies building this stuff to basically the same standards. If I'm gonna sell my soul for a cheap pedal, it'd better be less than $40! That said, I really don't have a problem with copying the TS or the DS1 or even the RAT. Even if you COULD patent a pedal, those patents would long ago have moved into public ownership. I'm much less comfortable with things like the Hustle drive, since that's a more recent box and the originator is a small company still building, right? Or the Timmy for another example.

The C9 is recent, even if the company is big, and Mooer got it's hands rightly slapped for just copying the software. And while the judgement was trivial (less than $100,000) the lawyers bills would likely make them sit up and take notice. Maybe level the field a little.
 

RMosack

Supporting Member
Messages
5,181
I've bought exactly one Mooer peddle, the Orange 90 phaser. And the MXR Phase 95 KILLS it in every way. Sold the Mooer, wont buy another.
I own three:
- ElecLady is okay, but not really close to my Hartman Flanger, let alone a real Electric Mistress
- Hustle Drive is okay
- Soul Shiver is functional
 

grizz

Member
Messages
363
Copying occurs at all levels of the business world. It is a constant thing regardless of the product, like it or not. I don't own any Mooer pedals but if they can function without breaking down longer than the EHX pedals I've owned in the past, I would have no qualms about buying one.
 

Godspeed64

Member
Messages
4,201
Why are people making this into a thing? Cloning, building slight variance interpretations, most of the pedal world is built off this legacy. Simply because cloning is "legal", is built upon a legal construct, whereas the morality of both falls within the same spectrum. EHX clones circuits still in production, and their code was stolen too. The moral compass is skewed for both directions for me.
 

Sacrifice

Member
Messages
1,314
I'm going to keep and enjoy the 2 that I have. Probably wont be buying anything from them again.
Yup. Simple, easy to remember.

Damage has already been done. Mike won, Mooer lost. Why should I lose by giving up a pedal they already made money on and I can't afford to replace?

As far as the furure, I was hoping to never have to buy another Mooer in the first place. An exception will be made for a Black Secret however.
 

DreamTheaterRules

Former Lyricist for Calhoun Tubbs
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,399
Nothing. What would it accomplish? Foolish grandstanding to convince one's self they have some moral superiority is just ridiculous and arrogant. Sell them all! Isn't impacting Mooer in the least but you get to claim moral superiority!
LOL! Claiming someone WITH morals is the arrogant one... PRICELESS!
 

stratotastic

Member
Messages
7,243
I'm probably going to go out and buy a bunch now that it's officially confirmed that they're exact copies of the real pedals but at a fraction of the price. :aok
 

Big in Japan

Supporting Member
Messages
1,241
Full disclosure: I own and regularly use a Blues Crab. Years ago, when I first found out about pedal cloning, it seemed shady and wrong. Obviously, I've since accepted it as common practice.

Law or no law, I struggle to see how copying software is different than copying circuits, from a moral standpoint. Both are acts of profiting off of someone else's work.

I'm not trying to justify software theft. And you can argue that software has copyright protection and circuits don't. But I don't think that's a moral high ground to take.

As a community, we should be asking whether or not we're comfortable across the board, with one company/builder taking and profiting from the work of another company/builder. That's the larger discussion.
 




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