What brand tubes are in the newer hardwired Fender tweed amps?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Meriphew, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Meriphew

    Meriphew Member

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    I'm going to pick up a new Fender Edge Deluxe combo and I'm going to swap the 12AX7 for a 12AY7. What brand tubes is Fender using in these amps? Thx!
     
  2. BluntForceTrauma

    BluntForceTrauma Member

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    Groove Tubes I would guess.
     
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  3. fitz

    fitz Member

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    I'm going to say my guess is Groove Tubes as well. But keep in mind, Groove Tubes remarkets other brand tubes. Some are Sovteks, my Blues Junior came with GT JJ's and my PRRI came with GT Electro Harmonix which were quite good. I would pull them and look at the codes. You can use this guide to tell the original manufacturer of the tubes.

    https://www.thetubestore.com/tube-brands/groove-tubes
     
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  4. NatGardner

    NatGardner Member

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    $2400 and you are swapping tubes before you get it? Play it for a few weeks first and let the speaker break in. That tube swap wont give you more head room at 12 watts. It will just be quieter.
     
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  5. Meriphew

    Meriphew Member

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    I know people who have swapped the 12ax7 for a 12ay7 for more clean headroom. That’s what I’m doing.
     
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  6. NatGardner

    NatGardner Member

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    Let us know how it works. I found the ay7 only lowers the signal into the power section and I have to crank the amp louder and it breaks up anyway. That may not be the case though with a tube rectifier.

    Nice amp btw :JAM
     
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  7. HotBluePlates

    HotBluePlates Member

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    @NatGardner is right.

    "TL;WR" (too long; won't read :D): You play your amp with a 12AX7 and it distorts when the volume knob hits "3.5" and a dB meter shows 105 decibels. You swap in a 12AY7, and now the amp distorts when the volume knob is up to 5.5. But the decibel meter still says "105dB."

    Did you gain any "headroom"?


    __________________

    In these amps, the 6V6s are the first thing to distort, and they will distort when driven with a specific amount of signal.

    Between the input jacks and the 6V6s are the preamp tubes and Volume control. If you reduce preamp amplification by using a 12AY7, you will have to turn the Volume control to a higher number to give the 6V6s the signal that will cause them to distort. However, they will still distort at the same signal level they always did, and create the same volume-in-the-room when that happens.

    So it's an "illusion of headroom"... and is based entirely on meaningless numbers on a control panel. However, you may prefer the sound of a 12AY7 or a 12AX7, and you'll just have to try it out to know your preference. There are some subtle sonic differences between the tube types that have to do with the differences in their characteristics beyond their amplification factor.
    ______________

    Now you might say, "But using that 12AY7 I feel like I can dig into the strings a bit more, and have a bit more usable range on the Volume control." That's a fair statement, and a fair benefit if using the 12AY7 performs more the way you prefer. Just understand the cause-and-effect happening.

    FWIW, some people use a specific brand/type of Volume pot in their amps, because there is more than one type of "audio taper." Some are a slower taper (like a "10% taper"), and the same-number-setting really provides a little more signal reduction than a faster-taper (like a "30% taper"). You have to turn that 10% audio taper pot to a higher number to get the same signal output than if you used a 30% taper pot.

    The 6V6s still distort at the same signal level whether a 10% pot or a 30% pot is used. But the 10% pot has to be at a higher number to hit that signal level. The amp still makes the same output power (and the speakers deliver the same volume into the room) when that onset of distortion is reached. Does the 10% taper pot "give you more headroom" or does it just give the "illusion of headroom" because of numbers on a control panel?​
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  8. davidespinosa

    davidespinosa Supporting Member

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  9. Pmg

    Pmg Member

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    Funnily enough I sold mine last week. It’s a great amp but I’m going with a different flavour for now and I can always get another one. I didnt bother trying a 12ay7 as it was plenty loud and clean. As an aside the tubes on my champ are fender branded.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
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  10. Meriphew

    Meriphew Member

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    Are you saying you did or didn’t change tubes?
     
  11. Meriphew

    Meriphew Member

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  12. Pmg

    Pmg Member

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    Sorry, typo. I didn’t bother. I’d read that review before buying too but once I got the amp I found it was fine as is for my needs (recording). I talked myself out of selling it once but in the end I figured I can get another one when my needs change. It’s a really good amp although my band are coming out of hiatus so I didn’t get chance to gig it.
     
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  13. woof*

    woof* Member

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    If you want for headroom get a different model.
     
  14. BoneSaw

    BoneSaw Supporting Member

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    Groove Tubes in my Bassbreaker 15. One already red plating right out of the box.
     
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  15. Meriphew

    Meriphew Member

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    I just want decent clean headroom at a lower stage friendly volume. I already have other louder amps (Vox AC30TBX, Morgan AC20 Deluxe, Marshall 2061X head/cab, MusicMan Sixty Five Reverb head).
     
  16. Hulakatt

    Hulakatt Supporting Member

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    While you are correct about the "illusion" of headroom on amps, the 6v6's are not where the Deluxe initially gets into dirt and loses headroom, it's the PI. Remember that it's an earlier cathodyne PI design and not the long tail pair that we're so used to in other amps. The long tail gained so much popularity because it was such a huge improvement for the clean headroom that all the amp manufacturers were chasing at that time. While the cathodyne was a big improvement (for headroom anyway) over the earlier paraphase PI, it's still nowhere near as capable as the long tail pair style.

    Changing V1 and the power tubes don't make nearly as much of a difference to the dirt on a 5e3 as changing out V2 does, try it! Personally, my favorite power tubes in my 5e3 ended up being the Sovtek 6v6's anyway, they just sounded right and they lasted forever. I rolled all kinds of 12a_7 through the preamp and really liked a Ruby 12ax7 in the PI with a NOS 12az7 in V1 and some unlabeled old stock 5y3 for power.
     
  17. 71strat

    71strat Member

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    An easy way to get more headroom, but will cost more money is to get a Fryette Power Station, and reamp it up to 50w RMS, or if you get the new one, its now 100w.
    Get a 4 x 12 Mather cabinet, have him make it with removale back panels so you can run it 1/3-2/3 semi/open back and load it with 4 Celestion Blues, and remp the amp at 35/40 watts.
     
  18. tbonesullivan

    tbonesullivan Member

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    I have never understood why people buy low wattage amps known for their great breakup, so that they can try to get more clean headroom. There are plenty of great clean amps out there, and as explained by the other posts, you really can't get more clean headroom out of the phase inverter and power amp design.
     
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  19. HotBluePlates

    HotBluePlates Member

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    Show your work: How do you know the split-load/cathodyne distorts first?

    Extra Credit: What happens to the plate output of the cathodyne when the peak input signal to the 6V6 grids equals/exceeds the value of the bias voltage?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  20. MichaelDCarter

    MichaelDCarter Member

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    In the JB Twin it's JJ tubes. And it sounds amazing.
     

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