Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Dr. Tweedbucket, Apr 23, 2008.
.....after a speaker breaks in?
I'd like to just hear a good explanation of what it is? I mean, what does it sound like, and how high is it, is it really noticeable or just at home playing alone? Is it something that only happens at high volumes?
I think cone cry is typically a higher volume problem and I believe doping can help but will also dampen the speaker response.
Yes, it sometimes goes away as a speaker breaks in. But it often doesn't.
The best recorded example of cone cry are the big bends at the end of Rush's Working Man. Those big bends with the howl at the end of each bend.... that is cone cry.
I have experienced cone cry with several speakers. I have tried doping the surrounds, and I've let them break in for as long as I can stand it. It never went away on those speakers that had it. Also, it was not a volume problem. The volume had to be up, a little, to hear it, but it did not have to be loud, at all. I could get cone cry in my living room, at modest levels.
My understanding is that it is a speaker defect, there isn't really a cure, but it can be prevented by doping the edge of the speaker sufficiently. So I guess you could say it is a design/construction defect. But it does only occur when you're really pushing the speaker towards (or beyond) the limits of its output ratings.
In the cases in which I've heard what I was told was cone cry, it was a unharmonic, distorted yowling sound that occurred typically on certain frequencies (notes) along with the note being played. Someone posted a great example here a couple years back. It was a recording of the guy's band playing some Allman Bros tune and you'd hear the 'cry' whenever the guy hit the 'problem note'.
That's interesting. I don't know the Rush song mentioned, so I am trying to imagine the sound of it. But what you wrote here, that it never goes away is interesting, also that it happens at lower levels.
So I wondered, are you also saying here that when you had a speaker that did it, it did it from when it was brand new (why don't speaker manufacturers test for it?) not something that develops over time?
That's not cone cry at the end of Working Man. that's just the dissonant over tones of the notes played together. Play the line on almost any amp and you will hear the same thing. Cone cry is far nastier and it like another note being played along with the note you are playing. A lot of times it is the same volume or louder than the note you are playing and it is usually the same note/pitch every time. It worsens as you increase the volume. Some people don't mind it, some do. I have had V30's that cried a little bit when pushed super hard but they were so loud that you would probably never use them there. In that case they are fine for me because they are in my "range" where I am very seldom or probably not ever going to get to that point. Emi Governors where the worst I have tried. I had a few and went back and forth with replacements directly from Emi but they all did it which was kind of a bummer because I really liked them. I have had a Weber Blue dog or two that would do it as well but it was very slight and definitely acceptable to me.
Cone cry is one of those things where if you have it, you will know it for sure. It is not pleasant.
One thing not mentioned is some amps have problems with ghost notes. This can give the illusion of a speaker being bad when in fact it is related to the amp, while they are not the same an over zealous cork sniffer could get rid of speakers that are actually ok.
By any chance is cone cry what I'm hearing on the palm-muted eighth-note chugs on Paranoid? What makes that odd little chirp that tracks the pick attack on the power chords?
I think Tony is using an Octave divider of some sort, at least on the leads. I could be WAY off on that, but it's hard to tell with all the fuzz present on the track.
will my cone cry if I call it nasty names?
Not sure I'd know if I heard it but there's a fairly technical desicription on the Weber site...
Those speakers that had cone cry exhibited it right out of the box.
I wouldn't call it a speaker or design/construction defect, as much as simply a physical limitation of the materials used for the cone. When cone cry occurs, the note comes from the surface of the cone vibrating out of context with the driver motion. It usually happens with speakers that have lighter cones and those that are most sensitive at lower volumes. The design "solution" is stiffer cone and more doping, but the tradeoff for that is sensitivity and frequency response.....the cone won't move as freely with smaller signals. So until speaker designers come up with new materials or solutions, we just choose the lesser of the two evils and deal with it...
The explanation from the Weber site -
Cone Cry, Ghost Notes, Edge Yowl
Context: I replaced that speaker because it had too much cone cry.
Description: As the speaker cone is vibrated by the voice coil, it can generate frequencies of its own that may be strong enough to be audible along with the intended note or signal from the musical instrument. These notes or tones may or may not be harmonically related to the intended note, and in some cases may be either higher or lower in frequency than the intended note. This usually means that the voice coil is driving the cone so hard that it is overcoming any damping and is essentially out of control. Sometimes manufacturers use huge magnets and loose spiders so they can win the 'sensitivity ratings' contest, but the result is a system that is difficult to control. Edge yowl is the term used to describe sounds that occur when the surround resonates, imparts energy back into the cone, and generates tones and notes that may or may not be harmonically related to the intended note.
Edge Yowl sounds like a good Punk album name.:RoCkIn
I had two vintage 30s that I pulled from an amp to use in 1x12 satellite cabs. One had cone cry on high Eb, the other did not. In other words, if you were playing E blues (uncommon, I know) in the 12th fret box position and were bending the B string 15th fret up a step (D to E - yeah I know, even more rare) it would hit the cone cry spot and howl in a not-good-way. I threw that speaker in an old crappy practice amp that I keep around. It would be great if it could be fixed.