What happened to Terry's BRW thread??

[jamess]

I found it to be a very well written perspective that sparked a great conversation. The last I saw someone derailed towards meat eaters and the Amazon de-forestation. Was that the death nail to the thread?

 

[Irreverent]

It was moved to the Manufacturer's & Retailer's Forum.

Peace.

 

[allo]

`why ?............this is reeking of govermential tamperings .

 

[Jack Briggs]

I don't agree with it's being moved, either. I think it may have had something to do with the heading "I lost another sale today..............."

Kinda seems like business speak.



Cheers,

 

[jamess]

Thanks for the info, guys.

 

[Flyin' Brian]

At least it's still here. Kudos to Terry for that post by the way.

 

[big mike]

Simple...it had quite a bit to do with the business of guitar building, it was started by a manufacturer, thus it's there. you can still read and participate in it. There were no infractions, warnings, or general finger wagging done. It was simply moved to where it should've been in the first place.

Feel free to continue to participate in it, it's not gone.

Mike

 

[JELLIS]

It was easy to see as the pie on your face,
and it's called self promotion.
"I lost a sale because I couldn't build with the magical wood!!!"
"Boo hoo, poor me!"
Tell the prospective buyer to take a hike.
Oh please, spare me from this drivel.
Never heard a bigger crock of crap, the hypocrisy around here runs rampant.
Honestly, talking about some pieces of wood that
originated from the mojo bushes in Brazil......
The blindfold tests were done long ago, nobody could tell the diff
between the Brazilian and the Indian.
Self indulgent and silly.
The bazillion rosewood thing should come to an end.
People are still building GREAT guitars without the blessing
of the Brazillion stuff.
Jeeeez, give it a rest.
Enough
and enough
and way more than enough

If you want Brazilian rosewood,
buy an old guitar....
This is FOOKIN nuts.

 

[Secret Ingredient]

It was easy to see as the pie on your face,
and it's called self promotion.
"I lost a sale because I couldn't build with the magical wood!!!"
"Boo hoo, poor me!"
Tell the prospective buyer to take a hike.
Oh please, spare me from this drivel.
Never heard a bigger crock of crap, the hypocrisy around here runs rampant.
Honestly, talking about some pieces of wood that
originated from the mojo bushes in Brazil......
The blindfold tests were done long ago, nobody could tell the diff
between the Brazilian and the Indian.
Self indulgent and silly.
The bazillion rosewood thing should come to an end.
People are still building GREAT guitars without the blessing
of the Brazillion stuff.
Jeeeez, give it a rest.
Enough
and enough
and way more than enough

If you want Brazilian rosewood,
buy an old guitar....
This is FOOKIN nuts.

Not sure I understand your post. You seem to be blasting Terry McInturff for doing exactly what you suggest, telling the buyer to take a hike. BTW, I don't own any McInturff guitars, and I don't have any issues with the thread being moved. I have no vested interest, other than I've noticed that he is one of the most polite and helpful contributors on this site. By his stated estimates, he's lost $80k or so of gross sales because he, again, does what you suggest and uses other woods. Seems like you should be congratulating him.

 

[JELLIS]

I do believe, that if you read the entiere thread, you will understand my post.
I'm blasting anyone who thinks that BR is special, some people WANT to believe that it is "special", but it's not...period

Not sure I understand your post. You seem to be blasting Terry McInturff for doing exactly what you suggest, telling the buyer to take a hike. BTW, I don't own any McInturff guitars, and I don't have any issues with the thread being moved. I have no vested interest, other than I've noticed that he is one of the most polite and helpful contributors on this site. By his stated estimates, he's lost $80k or so of gross sales because he, again, does what you suggest and uses other woods. Seems like you should be congratulating him.

 

[Glide]

I'm blasting anyone who thinks that BR is special, some people WANT to believe that it is "special", but it's not...period

That's an opinion. And opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has one.

 

[Teleplayer]

I do believe, that if you read the entiere thread, you will understand my post.
I'm blasting anyone who thinks that BR is special, some people WANT to believe that it is "special", but it's not...period

WOW

Glad we finally found somebody at TGP brilliant enough to be able to dictate such an "absolute" about a topic. Guess there is no need for any further discussion about the topic.

BTW, I have "known" Terry long enough to recall back in the day when he first discussed this topic openly; it was years ago. He's a principled man, sticks by his guns and has done a lot of research about Brazilian (notice correct spelling) rosewood, and other fingerboard woods as well. Kudos to him for posting the information.

 

[JELLIS]

That's an opinion. And opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has one.

Gee Wally, that's an original 50 year old saying. I have one asshole and many opinions.
Take the hearing test...
Put a blindfold on, have your friend hand you 2 guitars, one at a time, one with a BR board and one with a non-BR board.
It's a guessing game, honey.
It's been done a thousand times,
and there's no evidence that BR sounds better than any other wood.
Personally, I think BR usually looks better, but dat don't affect da tone, bro.

This is not absolute, Terry makes great guitars, with or without the Magical and Mystical Wonder Wood.

 

[big mike]

Allright enough of the insults and bickering please.

 

[Terry McInturff]

JELLIS,

I am hoping that you write and record music that reflects the energy in your writing, a lot of power to be harnessed there.

 

[hodad]

Terry,

Thank you for the humanitairian lesson. I'll try to take your example to heart.

 

[devilrob1979]

I for one appreciate your posts here Terry. Please don't let this affect what you contribute. You're an invaluable resource here for a lot of us and I will own one of your guitars one day. It's going to be my graduation present to myself in a couple of years.

 

[2leod]

Terry, I have always admired and respected your willingness to share your perspective. I have never felt there was an element of the "shill" in your posts, and I'd be surprised if anyone did. I don't take all you say as gospel, but the weight of your experience and your body of work leads me to consider all you post here with serious consideration and respect. When some of us are tossing opinions around, your words have clarity and substance, in my estimation. I don't know that you really can be just "one of the gang" - you know too darn much!

Ive enjoyed sharing here, but most importantly to me, I usually learned more than I gave.

Is there a past tense finality to these words, or am I reading things wrong? I sincerely hope I am.

 

[fullerplast]

I found it to be a very well written perspective that sparked a great conversation. The last I saw someone derailed towards meat eaters and the Amazon de-forestation. Was that the death nail to the thread?

IMHO, that's exactly when the great conversation started (thanks Joe!). That's because real action requires a real understanding of the problem and proposed solutions. IOW, why is someone's choice of fingerboard wood significant, and what is the impact of that choice? Are there other actions that may actually do more good and have much more impact in the big picture?

In that light, here are some more facts to further stimulate that conversation towards the real issue, which is deforestation in the Amazon (and ultimately worldwide):

Causes of deforestation in the Amazon
Cattle ranches 60-70%
Small-scale, subsistence agriculture 30-40%
Large-scale, commercial agriculture 1-2%
Logging, legal and illegal 2-4%
Fires, mining, urbanization, road construction, dams 2-4%

Guitar building is not the principal reason for the depletion of tonewoods. In fact, musical instrument production accounts for less than one percent of the spruce and rosewood that's harvested annually, according to Greenpeace. Trees used for guitars are also used for home construction, furniture building, and paper products, all of which have substantially more impact on supplies.

To put that in the perspective of our world on TGP, of that approx 3% of logging less than 1% is used for musical instruments. That's 0.03% of the total deforestation problem.

This next quote contains the essence of the problem, as well as partial solution:

According to a global study carried out by FAO, the University of British Columbia and the Lakehead University in Canada, reduced impact logging, if done properly, reduces not only disturbance to the remaining tree stand but also logging waste, compared to other conventional practices.

"Selective logging can sustainably deliver timber with minimum detrimental impact on forests. If forests do not generate income, forest owners tend to convert it to other land uses, which is worse than selective logging." Killmann said.

If one is truly interested in attacking the problem, one would not focus on the 0.03% portion of the problem but would look at the 60% portion. Here's why cattle ranching is the 60% portion of the problem:

Cattle ranching is the leading cause of deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon. This has been the case since at least the 1970s: government figures attributed 38 percent of deforestation from 1966-1975 to large-scale cattle ranching. However, today the situation may be even worse. According to the Center for International Forestry Research (CIFOR), "between 1990 and 2001 the percentage of Europe's processed meat imports that came from Brazil rose from 40 to 74 percent" and by 2003 "for the first time ever, the growth in Brazilian cattle production—80 percent of which was in the Amazon—was largely export driven."







Several factors have spurred recent Brazil's growth as a producer of beef:

• CURRENCY DEVALUATION—The devaluation of the Brazilian real against the dollar effectively doubled the price of beef in reals and created an incentive for ranchers to expand their pasture areas at the expense of the rainforest. The weakness of the real also made Brazilian beef more competitive on the world market [CIFOR].
• CONTROL OVER FOOT-AND-MOUTH DISEASE—The eradication of foot-and-mouth disease in much of Brazil has increased price and demand for Brazilian beef.
• INFRASTRUCTURE—Road construction gives developers and ranchers access to previously inaccessible forest lands in the Amazon. Infrastructure improvements can reduce the costs of shipping and packing beef.
• INTEREST RATES—Rainforest lands are often used for land speculation purposes. When real pasture land prices exceed real forest land prices, land clearing is a good hedge against inflation. At times of high inflation, the appreciation of cattle prices and the stream of services (milk) they provide may outpace the interest rate earned on money left in the bank.
• LAND TENURE LAWS—In Brazil, colonists and developers can gain title to Amazon lands by simply clearing forest and placing a few head of cattle on the land. As an additional benefit, cattle are a low-risk investment relative to cash crops which are subject to wild price swings and pest infestations. Essentially cattle are a vehicle for land ownership in the Amazon.

Some have suggested that agricultural certification could help reduce destructive clearing for cattle pasture.

So looking at the big picture, there may be additional places to focus attention beyond boycotting builders using legally obtained BRW fingerboards. It may be a "feelgood" thing, but it's roughly the equivalent of pissing on a California wildfire.

 

[big mike]

That should be in the thread where the discussion is taking place.