What is 400 ms delay like?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by atomheartmother, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. atomheartmother

    atomheartmother Senior Member

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    I'm looking into one of those Rocktron Short Timer delays as they're cheap and have a pretty low current draw for a digital pedal (27 mA according to Rocktron). But it only has 400 ms of delay on tap. Can someone give me some reference as to how long that is? Any song examples? A clip with delay at around 400ms would be great.

    Could it do the Edge delay type sounds? How about Gilmore delays?
     
  2. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    500ms is a half a second.

    Cathedral off of Van Halen's Diver Down album is about 300ms.

    400ms of course falls right in between.
     
  3. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    and yes, you could definitly do Edge and Gilmour type stuff with 400ms or less.
     
  4. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    If you're playing a song at 60 bars per minute (4 beats a second) you'll get just over a quarter note or 2 8ths with 400 msec. So at 8ths you can play harmony running up or down the scale with the delay coming in two notes back. Anything over 300ms is pretty useful for atmospherics and self harmony. I'm not sure much more is really necessary unless you're sampling whole phrases where 1-2 seconds are useful, or reusing choruses or verses where 20 secs are helpful (or whole songs at 4 minutes).
     
  5. capnbringdown

    capnbringdown Member

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    400ms isn't that much of delay time. If you can imagine the solo for Comfortably Numb, that has IIRC about 440ms of delay on it, so around there. It's pretty short, good for slapback or doubling. If you want more spaced out **** like what pink floyd is known for, you'll need something longer. Gilmour, to me atleast, is most associated with a long digital delay. Of course, you can't go wrong with 2 delays on your board. Currently, I run both a dd-20 and a signalflex delay (300ms echo). I can get some really nice sounds that way. If you want something cheaper than the dd-20, go for the de-7 or dd-3. Two delays might work best for you. And even though I detest U2, the edge gets his sound by running 2 dmm's.
     
  6. jeak

    jeak Member

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    Scroll to the bottom of this page and listen to the Crunch Box clips from Tone Factor. They are all recorded with delay in the neighborhood of 400ms (give or take 25ms). Also, if you have a metronome or drum machine, set the tempo to 120. That's what 500ms sounds like. So 400 would be a little faster/shorter delay.
     
  7. JoeyD

    JoeyD Member

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    I completely dissagree. Most of floyd's best stuff (the early stuff that is) was almost all done with analog delays (which in vintage times, correct me if i'm wrong, almost never broke 600ms). Soloing/spacy sounds made by Gilmore all fall into the 400 ms reigon. Any longer than that and your song better be in a very slow tempo or delayed notes will clash with eachother. If you are looking for oldschool ambiance/trip outs, 400 ms delays will get you there. Just make sure you got the right techniques/reverb/ODs/Fuzzes to fill it all out. The edge also used 2 memory mans in his early days which i think only went up to 550 ms? I could be wrong, but it wasnt much longer than 400 ms.

    I would see if you can try one out youself... and maybe compare it to some other digital delays with longer delay times. Delays can get very expensive depending on your tastes for tones etc... the DD-3 is a good working man's delay and has 800ms, which will cover all your short delay time needs without having silly ammounts of delay time, but the digital tone can be an issue for some. The L6 Echo Park can do everything you want it to, plus has tap tempo and dotted 8th note options (perfect for edge sounds) but the current draw/ price may not be right for you. In the end, the short timer may be perfect :cool:.
     
  8. Madsman

    Madsman Member

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    400 ms is pretty reasonable. For most purposes, you don't need more than that. For some, very few, you will. You can get most of the U2 type stuff with 400 or less. I found 300 to be a little short for some purposes (Schism by Tool being one of them) but the Memory Lane at 550 has more than I've needed. I come from the realm of rack delays, where 2000ms is not at all out of the question, but I found that it was really rare to need more than 400/415 even for the shredder nerd lead guitar sound.
     
  9. Joe Boy

    Joe Boy Member

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    Buy it at GC, and if you decide you no likey...

    ...I love the DD-5, lots of good stuff in there...
     
  10. eric-d

    eric-d Member

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    Go to - www.buildyourownclone.com and buy two of his DD-80 clones. They go to roughly 600 MS. They're about 140$ each and they sound great w/ true bypass. I like the Eric Johnson 379(ish) ms delay time.... Not too long and not too short... Can easily get Pink Floyd and Edge type delay's out of them. They also have a small footprint.... :AOK
     
  11. threm

    threm Member

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    I thought the Binson Echorecs had more than 400-600ms delay time?


    http://www.plexipalace.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?p=150170&sid=cd8e75ce4d5aac92ed2a1f4f346f1302


    "Record and playback heads were arranged around the drum periphery, the longest delay, or playback echo being a nominal 350 - 375 milliseconds. "
    http://www.binson.com/History/history.html


    "The Binson[SIZE=-2]TM Echorec 1 and 2 .....[/SIZE]


    [​IMG]


    "The next generations of Binson units feature a larger (4 inch) "memorydisk" which was capable of producing much longer delays than it's older sibling. The Echorec 2 (not shown) is heard on the 1964 studio recording of "The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt" where the 5th head "answers back" prominently.""

    http://www.penumbra.co.nz/allthegear.html#top
     
  12. Fifthstone

    Fifthstone Member

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    I bought a Short Timer a few months ago after doing lots of research. I was looking for a warm tape echo type sound as an alternative to my clean but sterile sounding Boss DD3. I love the Short Timer. The delay is super warm and gives me just the sound I was looking for. I've used it to do Edge stuff on longer (but not max) settings and Gilmour stuff (shorter settings). It also doesn't seem to muddy the signal when bypassed, though I don't think it's true bypass and I do keep a short signal chain. Rocktron used to post several clips I think, but looks like they've redone their site and only have a slap echo sample up. I have a lead clip with a relatively short setting at: http://www.fifthstone.com/hurricane.mp3 . The Short Timer is only on the lead (and there's a long lead in...sorry).
     
  13. LouRossi

    LouRossi Member

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  14. atomheartmother

    atomheartmother Senior Member

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    Cool. I actually went ahead ordered one last night. I figured that I you really can't go wrong for $49 shipped (new).


    Anyone know what the delay speed is on Gilmore's solo in Time?
     
  15. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    I have one of those little plastic Danelectro pedals which is a slap back echo 50's sounding stuff. It's supposed to be set at 300 ms. With that in mind I would say a 400 ms echo would sound like a slap back type echo. Listen to country stuff from the 50's, Chet Atkins I believe was the pioneer of that sound.
     
  16. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    Wow, what a great site that is. THANKS for the info. That one's bookmarked for future reading!

    ERIC
     
  17. straticus

    straticus Member

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    Wow, $49 shipped new?:drool Where did you buy it? I've been thinking about trying a short timer too.
     
  18. MrSage

    MrSage Member

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    With or Without You is 401 ms.
     
  19. Blackvault

    Blackvault Member

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    What settings are these designed for? BOSS DD-3?

    Blackvault
     
  20. BoyWearingVans

    BoyWearingVans Member

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    uh oh 1 thousandthof a sec too short j/k

    I am happy w my short timer. It was a $40 shipped, ebay 0 bid situation.

    stomp switch and a button for "short/shorter"? awesome.

    the following is not usefull whatsoever but....

    here's one for the Nintendo Duck Hunt fans:

    remember the annoying dog that laughs at you when you miss both ducks ( then you point the zapper at the dog and repeatedly pull the trigger)?

    set the level on 10, repeats 6 and Time 0,


    keep your left hand on the time knob,
    with your right hand tap a high note quickly and mute.
    instantly turn the time knob up quickly (dumping the notes pitch).

    instant duck hunt dog laugh, my other delays wont do it the same.
     

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