What is a BOSS buffer doing to your tone?

D

Dompax

Member
Messages
293
I have a pedalboard with 10 true bypass pedals and a separate T1M buffer. I have no significant difference in tone going through complete chain (all pedals off) than going straight guitar to amp. I guess T1M is a great buffer.
The chain goes:
Turbo tuner -> BuddyGuy wah -> T1M buffer -> Plexidrive -> MojoMojo -> Timmy -> MXR Micro Flanger -> Hardwire Chorus -> Diamond tremolo -> MXR Carbon Copy -> EP booster (allways on).
So I have actually two buffers running. Recently I tried using Boss DD6 and noticed a slight reduction in presence but also in a bass range resulting a bit less punchy sound. I put it in the place of Hardwire chorus in my signal chain.
Any similar experiences? Can you recommend some other placement in the signal chain for DD6 where the effect of it's buffer would be minimal?
Thanks!
pedalboard_novo_r.jpg
 
J

JRBain

Member
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1,310
To my tone? I have 2 Boss pedals (one modded) on the board currently, and I've used all of the ones I own, 4 in total, before. I have no complaints...

But I can't see why it would make any difference? I'll defer to the electronics experts, but I can't think of any reason why placing it differently would affect the EQ significantly. It's most important (in my experience) to have a buffer up-front, and you have.

If the DD-6 bothers you in bypass, I think you'd do far better to do something about it. Probably the most compact solution is this...

http://www.jackdeville.com/clickless-system/cltb

I haven't tried it, but it doesn't look like a TB loop, even a small one, would be ideal on your board.
 
DanHorse

DanHorse

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1,960
I have a Boss DM-2 and older DD-3, plus a new BD-2. I dont notice any suck with the older delays that is unacceptableto me, the presence remains (im big on clarity and presence). But the BD-2 definitely shaves some presence off, no likey, bad BD!

That clickless bypass looks interesting though, i might implement on one or two of mine..
 
J

Jammer2393

Member
Messages
162
I always felt that I had to work more to get good tones out of my fuzz. then I tryed taking my DS-1 and OD-3 out of the chain and I jammed on that fuzz like never before, it was amazing.
 
Heady Jam Fan

Heady Jam Fan

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9,009
There were recent threads about this - it seems some of the Boss buffers have lower input impedance, particularly those that go at the end of the signal chain, and they sound a bit darker and lose a small amount of volume. You can imagine running a few of those wouldn't exactly be ideal. The impedance of those Boss pedals is similar to that of Ibanez TS's - I have two of those (and I had a Boss with a 'good' buffer) in the same chain and had some volume loss and high end loss. I put in a Fromel Shape and the buffer seemed to add back in some of the high end, maybe even volume. I am probably going to do Jack Deville's Click-Less mod, as someone suggested above, whenever I have time (if I think I can do the mod) and money.
 
blackba

blackba

Silver Supporting Member
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12,654
Can you run the DD6 in the effects loop? I have found that pedals that I hear a tone change out front, I will often not hear it once they are in the effects loop.
 
C

chervokas

Member
Messages
6,839
Heady Jam Fan said:
There were recent threads about this - it seems some of the Boss buffers have lower input impedance, particularly those that go at the end of the signal chain, and they sound a bit darker and lose a small amount of volume. You can imagine running a few of those wouldn't exactly be ideal. The impedance of those Boss pedals is similar to that of Ibanez TS's - I have two of those (and I had a Boss with a 'good' buffer) in the same chain and had some volume loss and high end loss. I put in a Fromel Shape and the buffer seemed to add back in some of the high end, maybe even volume. I am probably going to do Jack Deville's Click-Less mod, as someone suggested above, whenever I have time (if I think I can do the mod) and money.
Click to expand...

I think the Boss digital delays have op amp buffers (does any one know for sure?) and they certainly have 1M ohm input impedances so I don't think loading or signal loss would be an issue; and anyway in the OP's case the Boss pedal is coming after the T1M buffer at the front of the chain so it's not loading the guitar at all. The guitar's being loaded by the very, very high input impedance of the T1M (10M ohms); not the Boss' more amp-like input impedance (1M ohm).

I think those delays, like other Boss pedals that mix wet and dry signals, have pre and deemphasis circuitry even as part of their bypass schemes meaning the circuit changes the signal eq going in and puts it back going out, but that circuitry could be imperfect (as everything is) and account for some minor tonal differences.

Also, I don't know the output impedance of the Boss pedal in question or the input impedance of the EP booster but with everything off but the always on EP at the end, that pedal's input impedance will be loading the output buffer of the Boss and depending on that relationship there may be very slight differences in frequency balance and signal level vs. the output impedance of the T1M being loaded by the input impedance of the EP booster. If the T1M and the Boss have the same output impedances that wouldn't be a problem but if they're different it might well account for very slight variation.
 
H

hawes

Member
Messages
455
I have had mixed experiences with Boss buffers. Some sound fine and some take off a little of the high end.
 
T

tdk8709

Senior Member
Messages
961
The buffer in my TU-2 acts just like a T1M or JHS buffer at the start of my signal chain. I've tried them all and the sound is just the same. I know other Boss pedals (Tremolo, PS series) have buffers that really tax your tone.
 
D

Dompax

Member
Messages
293
Huh, as I understand, I can do nothing with the presence&lows cut as long as I use a DD6 right? I came with an idea of using BOSS CS3 compressor instead of T1B buffer. Would this change anything?
 
aflynt

aflynt

Member
Messages
1,993
It takes a photograph of your tone, and then the photograph is split up into millions of tiny pieces, and they go whizzing through the air down to your amp where they're all put together again in the right order. As a consequence, your tone sounds much smaller than normal. Fortunately, guitar tone is extremely springy and elastic. I think that you can just plug into a special taffy pulling machine. That should do the trick...

Um... Why does this remind me of a movie plot? Personally, I think the answer is to screw with the sound as little as possible. A true bypass mod would be my choice. Jack Deville and Jack Orman both have nice ones that can be retrofitted right into the Boss enclosure using the same switch and with no changes to the outward appearance of the pedal. I've used both and they work very well.

-Aaron
 
C

chervokas

Member
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6,839
Dompax said:
I came with an idea of using BOSS CS3 compressor instead of T1B buffer. Would this change anything?
Click to expand...

I don' t know that the substituting the CS3 for the T1M will do anything to change the frequency response you're hearing from the delay in bypass after the first buffer. Do you know what the output impedances are for the T1M and the CS3?

I do know the CS-3 has a 1M ohm input impedance while the T1M has a 10M ohm input impedance so that alone will change the frequency response of the guitar>buffer at least somewhat, quite apart from whatever is happening later in the chain.
 
D

Dompax

Member
Messages
293
chervokas said:
I don' t know that the substituting the CS3 for the T1M will do anything to change the frequency response you're hearing from the delay in bypass after the first buffer. Do you know what the output impedances are for the T1M and the CS3?

I do know the CS-3 has a 1M ohm input impedance while the T1M has a 10M ohm input impedance so that alone will change the frequency response of the guitar>buffer at least somewhat, quite apart from whatever is happening later in the chain.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I have no info on CS3 nor T1M output impedance. If anybody else could give this info I would be grateful.
 
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