what is it in handwiring?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Brian0192, Aug 12, 2010.

  1. digital jams

    digital jams Member

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    Designing a turret board based amp is easier than laying out your own pcb board and getting it manufactured as well, you can pick up quality turret boards at many dealers. Not so with pcb hense the reason lots of guys use turret.

    Tag knows tone but would not take up John Suhr on his challenge :bonk:rotflmao:D
     
  2. nullin

    nullin Member

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    Sounds like a well thought out point of view to me. So does this:
    http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Pcboard.php
     
  3. Kardula

    Kardula Member

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    the argument shouldn't be "handwired vs. pcb" but more so "qualitly handwired vs. quality pcb"

    i understand that when it comes right down to it there's really nothing that hand wiring offers that can't be achieved with a pcb board...granted i've never been able to compare them side by side, but I've played several of both and they all sound really good. I've yet to play a quality hw and pcb that were geared towards the same thing, so I could be way off base here, but the amp with the most articulation and clarity that I played was an SLO, which we all know uses pcb boards.
     
  4. SteveO

    SteveO Member

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    All I can say is that I wouldn't want to be the poor bastard that had to hand wire a Mesa Road King or Mark V...
     
  5. Leonc

    Leonc Wild Gear Hearder Gold Supporting Member

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    Tone-wise I've played a number of PCB amps that I thought sounded GREAT; so I'm not convinced that hand-wired is always better from a tone standpiont. One big advantage of hand-wired amps (that I don't think has been mentioned yet) is they're usually easier to work on and tweak. If you want to change something about the circuit design in a PCB amp, it can be a lot harder.
     
  6. vicdeluca71

    vicdeluca71 Member

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  7. Shiny_Beast

    Shiny_Beast Supporting Member

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    I'd say it's easier to screw up the design of a PCB layout. I'd rather have a cheap ptp than a cheap pcb.

    I think there are a couple other adbantages to ptp that do have to do with having 3 dimentions. Fender used to bring the heaters in from the top, of course as long as the tubes aren't mounted on the pcb you coiyld still do the same either way.

    From the amps I've seen I'd have to say the more complex they get the more I'd want them to be point to point. There just seems to be more organizational freedom.

    Now if you want to get in to the mojo factor, like what happens in a flat trace versus a round stranded or unstranded wire, break out the drinks and popcorn.
     
  8. MRscratch

    MRscratch Member

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    i would not say that a hand wired amp sounds any better than a PCB amp. looks cooler inside, but thats about it.
     
  9. schwa

    schwa Member

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    Most inexpensive amps are PCB. It's an opportunity to get something that sounds cool for short money. If it breaks, it might be more trouble to fix than it's worth.

    There are some great PCB amps out there. They sound great, and have quality construction. They may not break, but if they do, it may cost a bit more, because they're a bit harder to work on.

    Turret board/PTP amps may or may not sound better (I'm not sure). But if it breaks down, you tech is going to have an easier time fixing it. (the build is more robust, and components are easier to replace). This type of amp is often easier to make small and reversible changes to.
     
  10. MRscratch

    MRscratch Member

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    let me add that my SLO sounds as cool as my hotcat 100.different,but equally as good
     
  11. cap47

    cap47 Member

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    If you like to build or tinker with amps, hand wire is better! If you are like most guitar players, you have problems changing a tube and could care less whether the amp is point to point or PCB! It all depends on the user!
    If a PCB is quality, you can still find a way to do mods! Traces lifting can be a PITA! That's pain in the ###! Not quality at that point! I have worked on both good and bad ones and still got the job done! I doubt there would be any tone difference if both are quality circuits and components!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  12. justonwo

    justonwo Supporting Member

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    Two of my very favorite amp makers, Rivera and Custom Audio Amplifiers, both use very high quality double-sided PCBs with chassis mounted sockets, etc, etc. A well designed PCB amp can sound just as good as a hand wired amp.
     
  13. bluesky636

    bluesky636 Member

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    I agree that a PCB is more susceptable to external noise, but that is why I stress the point "well designed and laid out". I am puzzled, however, with your statement about PVC providing protection against external noise. Please explain how plastic can protect against external electrical noise. That is a new one on me and a new one on the designers I have worked with who are designing PCBs to work in environments much harsher than any guitar amp will ever see (and live to tell about it :D).
     
  14. Bluedawg

    Bluedawg Member

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    I'm not disagreeing with ... I think your right ...



    although in reality good quality PCB amps built in numbers may actually be more consistant in their sound quality than the handwired versions ... once your PCB layout is right then it will always be right ... other than the occasional manufacturing defect

    and if you're running a small shop some amps just don't make sense to do in PCB ...

    single channel basic amps are the ideal candidates for handwiring ....

    multi-channel amps and other complex designs are probably better off using PCB



    :BluesBros
     
  15. TheAmpFactory

    TheAmpFactory Member

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    well I had 2 orange heads, one was HW and other was PCB.. I did compare, but as far as difference goes..not much to sing about, oh, the HW am was a bit louder, thats it. tone wise it was just the same. - only difference is (from what I can tell) - is HW amps just make it easier to "live" with should you need to open her up and do surgery!

    PCB make some great sounding stuff, its all a myth really. - but I will tell you this.. HW amps are not as consitant. - i.e, when I got my Fender 57 Twin (RI), that is a all HW amp.. but there were 2 in the shop, one sounded great other did not..and Ive also read this before with HW amps.

    With PCB its all the same for pretty much every amp.
     
  16. RobRowland

    RobRowland Member

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    Were you comparing the Tiny Terror and Tiny Terror HW?
     
  17. torquil

    torquil Member

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    That's not true. With a PTP/eyelet or similar type contruction it is easier for me to modify my amp!

    It was a nightmare when I tried to modify my Mesa Express 5:25 so I gave up. My (non-PCB) Ceriatone and AX84 amps on the other hand are a breeze to work with. Ok, they are also less complicated, but I think my point is still valid.

    Tonally, I agree that it doesn't make sense to say that PCB or non-PCB is better.
     
  18. Unabender

    Unabender Member

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    Then how come common things like, I dunno, PC computer circuit boards have miles of very thin PCB traces and still manage to work?

    And while we are at it, how do computer processors manage to work with about a billion transistors and all that with 45 nanometer traces?

    Or maybe all that "external noise" just comes from the fact we have guitar amps with cascaded gain stages which amplify all the noise in the first place.
     
  19. redshark1105

    redshark1105 Member

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    I hate all this threads, people that claim that there's no diference between a pcb and a handwired amp have an ear problem.
     
  20. RobRowland

    RobRowland Member

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    I hate these threads because of uneducated comments like this.
     

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