What is that swirly/schwoosy sound when certain amps are cranked?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by MikeyG, May 29, 2005.

  1. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    Some of my favorite amps have them. The Komet 60, the /13s ... I love those amps up to the onset of the schwoosh. But I don't care for the schwoosh. There's also a looseness that seems to go along with the schwoosh.

    I've read that these types of amps are underfiltered to get more complexity, and that's what's causing that. Is this accurate? I think I'd prefer to take it up to that point, just before it, and hit it with a pedal.

    Interestingly, the Komet Constellation doesn't seem to do this ...

    I'm guessing there's plenty of people that like the schwoosh, but not me.
     
  2. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    Hey Mike, no sarcasm intended, but I have no clue as to what you're talking about . I've never heard it on any amp. BUT I haven't played those amps that you're referring to so that might explain that. I've owned 40-60 amps since 1974 tho and have fixed lots of friends amps and played lots of friends amps and never heard it. Is that a good quality of the Komet60 and Divby13's to you or is it an oscillation from having a presence control too high with a non-feedback loop, and what other amps do you hear it in etc? ERIC
     
  3. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    Howdy Eric. Hows that Purplexi doing? I miss that thing.

    I think he may be refering to the eb and flow of electrons as thay dance acroos the milky way of the amps circuit. :NUTS
     
  4. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    I thought it might be an inner-ear infection myself!!! Or shrooms.. Mike I'm totally kidding but have still never come close to having heard it. Red Planet might not have played a Komet or Div by 13 either tho!!!!!! And yes that's a beautiful amp RP!


    ERIC
     
  5. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    I think Splatt knows what I talking about. He calls zhooz or something like that.

    Oh, and by the way, Eric, I played *TWO* 1974 Marshalls last night, and neither was smooth, imagine that....
     
  6. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    My Blankenship does it too ....

    it's this kinda shwooshy, swirly thing when an amp is pushed hard. I heard a /13 9-15 last night, and it did it, just like my old FTR37 did. The Komet 60 does it.

    It's subtle, you need my ears or Tag's ears to actually hear it. ;)
     
  7. Hipster Dofus

    Hipster Dofus Member

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    I remember my Bad Cat Cub2 had that sound. I remember there was a Bad Cat Panther (cub) at the Michigan TF. As we went around the room, as soon as that amp was played, there it was again! Turned up 1/3 to 2/3 and it was very much there, unlike all the rest of the amps in the room.
     
  8. Mark Kane

    Mark Kane Silver Supporting Member

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    Eric, The old Tweed amps have lots of swirl when you crank 'em, some marshall will too. Lots of amps do it. I can hear it easiest with humbuckers, especially a neck bucker. Crank up an old tweed and play that call and response lick from "Outside Woman Blues" Cream, and you'll hear it.
     
  9. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    OH gosh, I haven't heard any Cream guitar in 30 years! Seriously , are you and Mike LITERALLY saying the sound swirls around like a phase shifter? The 1st thing I thought of (other than the 'shrooms' reply) was some type of phase cancellation effect. Still I've never experienced it with any amp cranked.. Do you like it?

    ERIC
     
  10. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    Good one, Nah, I just need to play those amps. None of mine do it. So it's a characteristic of those types of amps that you don't like? Also , is the Blankenship a 'tweedish' design (as Mark mentioned it happened in the old tweeds too) I've never owned or played any old tweed.. I have a 62 Brown Deluxe that sounds totally normal up to 10 , and an old THD blues/tweed bassmanesque design that didn't do it either, but neither is anything like a lo-watt Tweed amp really . Eric
     
  11. Scott_F

    Scott_F Member

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    I know the tweeds I've built have this magic "reverb-like" effect going on, like the Keebler Elves snuck in one night and installed a reverb pan and a tube or two when I wasn't looking. Really cool tone.
     
  12. mountain blues

    mountain blues Member

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    +1, bigtime.
     
  13. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    I was kidding of course, about the sensitive ears thing. Just giving Eric a little ribbing, is all....

    Yeah, the Blankenship amp is a Tweed Deluxe variant.

    To me, the /13 FTR37 (a little less so, the 9/15) are like Tweeds on steroids. I definitely hear a tweed heritage when pushed.
     
  14. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    I wonder if microphonics are a factor. The vibration of the cab rattling the tubes and all.

    ...or the magnetic field of the OT interacting with the tubes.

    It's all friggin magic..
     
  15. RhytmEarl

    RhytmEarl Member

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    I am pretty well convinced that the swirl I hear and that everyone talks about is frequency cancellation/reinforcement from the back of open back cabs.

    I don't hear swirl with a Marshall 4x12 but do hear it with a BF Fender combo. I don't hear it outdoors with any amp.

    I think it's just a very subtle phase shifter/chorus effect caused by the room and an open back cab.

    MHO of course.
     
  16. Moods

    Moods Supporting Member

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    I've never understood the term "swirl". I don't hear it. I've owned or heard every amp mentioned in this thread and I can't say I know what you guys are talking about. Anything swirling or phasing is a negative in my book. My amps might have a ton of swirl or none at all for all I know.

    <M
     
  17. trisonic

    trisonic Member

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    You mean "Swirl" right?
    I'm not an amp designer (thank God - subjected to the rules of fashion and geeks like us......oops forget I said that....) but I've noticed it is lacking (for example) in Wide Panel Tweeds (generally) and backwards but is most prominent in Narrow Panel Tweeds and their like. As the main difference seems to be the gain structure I believe it is the relationship between the pre-amp and power section.

    Btw the way you get no swirl after you shut your index finger in a car door as I did earlier this week..........

    Best, Pete.
     
  18. wsaraceni

    wsaraceni Member

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    i kinda think thats what i heard in my bad cat cub 2 when turned up loud. i dont have it now so i cant compare. havent cranked my hot cat 30r high enough to hear that yet.
     
  19. Mark Kane

    Mark Kane Silver Supporting Member

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    The first JTM45 reissue I ever modded did not have much of this swirl stock. After changing the filter caps from two double 50uf caps to one double 32uf and one double 16uf it had loads of swirl.
    EricB, your Butler modded amp has got to do this cranked with humbuckers. I hear it easiest on the wound strings.
     
  20. abergdahl

    abergdahl Member

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    Clips of zhoozh?? RF politician is that an example??
     

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