What is the best modeler? The one that sounds best, of course!

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by ltkojak, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. ltkojak

    ltkojak Member

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    I had a studio date yesterday. 70's rock.

    The project leader had a mid 70's 50-watt red Plexi with a 1959 cab for me. I did the parts, but it sounded "not gritty enough", I was told. "You don't sound like YOU MEAN IT"

    To make a very long story short, after he made me remake the parts while HE was turning the knobs in the amp, he couldn't get "it".

    Then I asked him if I could try with a modeler. "No way in Hell it'll work if the plexi didn't do it".

    What do you have to lose, man? He reluctantly said "Go ahead, but don't make waste my time or I won't pay you". And he went to grab a bite with the rest of the band.

    At this point, the sound engineer looked funny at me when I took out a Behringer V-Amp. "Are you sure, man?". "Let's try", I've said.

    I had a plexi sound programmed in 2006 or so, so I tweaked it a little bit through their wonderful Genelec system and started playing the parts.

    "They sound a lot better, but a bit "artificial", man; are you SURE that's what you wanna do?"

    "Yeah, just run the track through a parametric EQ, shaving 'bout 2db at 2.4K with a pretty narrow Q to warm'em up", I said.

    While he was doing just that, the crew came back from the restaurant and the project leader heard the new tracks.

    "Yeah! That's what I was talking about!" "NOW things are REALLY happening".

    "You (the sound engineer) are a bloody GENIUS!"

    "You (me) can go eat now, I'll take it from here".

    I got paid, the sound engineer will get more work from this project leader, and I'll get called again, as I could "nail it like it should be".

    Not the sound engineer or me told him what was actually used to make the tracks happen... but I'll deal with this little detail NEXT TIME... ;)

    As I always say: it's NOT the hammer, it's how you use it.

    And of course, letting the project leader getting all the credit!

    That's showbiz 101 for ya, folks! ;)
     
  2. H_V_C

    H_V_C Member

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    It's funny and sad, and yes I've been there! Not a behringer, but years ago I did use Line 6 amp farm to fool a tube snob. For quite a while after that, even I still wouldn't use a modeler live despite what I learned in the studio.

    Now I think the AXE-Fx II is one of the best gear purchases I have ever made.... and I do perform roughly 300 gigs a year!

    The times they are a changen'....
     
  3. ltkojak

    ltkojak Member

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    I did an average of 250 a year for over ten years before getting burned-out... for a while I felt 'bout music like one feels 'bout his ex-wife (being the mother of all evils and a spawn of everything unholy, to put it mildly).

    It took me a fair while to come back to my senses.

    Consider yourself warned! ;)

    HTH,
     
  4. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    Definitely not the discussion I expected from the title. :)

    I don't remember if it was on TGP or one of the other guitar boards I frequent but my sig for a long time was "Tone is where you find it". As Matt notes, there's a lot of useful stuff out there if you're open to it. I remember getting surprisingly good results using a Roland Play Bus as an overdrive.
     
  5. lspaulsp

    lspaulsp Gold Supporting Member

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    YES!
     
  6. Boink!

    Boink! Member

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    Yesterday I posted a thread here regarding a Behringer GDI 21 amp modelling stomp box. After about 5-6 hours of messing around on Zoom G5 (new flagship model everyone praises) I turned on the Behringer just for the hell of it. Wanted to make the A/B comparison (the incomparable in price tag). Long story short, I couldn't make my Zoom sound as thick and tube-like. GDI is pretty much useless for gigging (hiss, can't clear out the sound, get's lost in the mix) but they've got it right as far as the tube emulation is concerned.
     
  7. H_V_C

    H_V_C Member

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    It's been over 10 years for me already, but thanks for the advice.
     
  8. MKB

    MKB Silver Supporting Member

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    One good thing about a modeler in the studio is it gets rid of most of the variables such as line voltage, mic placement, signal level setting, tube wear, etc. A Marshall tube amp's tone is greatly affected by line voltage for one thing. It is difficult to get consistent tone from one day to the next with a tube amp, but modelers fix all that.

    Congrats to the OP for getting a good usable tone from a Behringer V-Amp, I've had one of those for many years and have used it quite a bit. It will do a decent Marshall tone, but the V-Amp has a coloring it places on all its tones that just grates on me. I should get it out of the basement and try the 2dB down at 2.4kHz trick. Thanks for that tip.
     
  9. mattball826

    mattball826 Member

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    never had a problem with any amp or line voltage in studio. most studios have decent power regulation and gear that provides clean power. the tube amp studio inconsistency thing is hype too.

    most of the sounds guys go for with their modelers are based on those inconsistent studio amp recordings. fwiw.

    turn the modeler gain down and then compare its sound to the same breakup emulation to that of a real amp and cab in studio mic'd with condenser for room. and 57 or 421 for close mic.

    krish sharma at groove 3 has dvd that demos some of the best amp sounds and how easy it is to achieve.
     
  10. Guitar Vilain

    Guitar Vilain Member

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    OP, that was a great story, reminded me of a very long thread at gearslutz about things people say at studios during recording sessions :D
     
  11. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    As I think about it, I'd probably argue that there's more the modeler argument than just tone. I think that workflow is a big deal as well.
    • How easy is it to set up a preset?
    • How easy is it to maintain your key presets?
    • How do you adjust your rig to different gig environments?
    • How easy is it to select/switch presets during a live performance?
    Factors like these can affect one's modeler preference just like tone.
     
  12. lspaulsp

    lspaulsp Gold Supporting Member

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    It's funny, I took my 11R last Sunday to practice and it just wasn't dialed in yet. So out comes the old tried and true 1x12 Flextone III. Little tweak here, little tweak there, played a gig Friday night (first for this band). Had the amp laid back facing the back wall because the place was semi-small. Up comes this guy tells me I have the best tone and wants to know what amp I'm using cause he can't see it. He climbs on stage and is blown away. Wants to know what else I'm using cause all he sees is a Flex an M-13 and the foot pedal for the Flex. Now he's going how much you got tied up in that rig and I'm going maybe $1100. Now he's upset and says he got four grand tied up in his. I keep trying to replace the Flex. I guess it's the GAS. Not the best effects in the world in it, hard to tweak on the fly. But just as an amp it's pretty much always come through. This isn't the first time this has happened. I keep hearing how crappy L6 is. NOT MY FLEX. 40 years of doing this. I bought the Flex as an amp to take to JAMS it's slowly over the years replaced my Bandmaster and Rivera as a small go to amp with a pretty good direct out.

    You're right...................Listen with your ears, close your eyes.
     
  13. MKB

    MKB Silver Supporting Member

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    I read somewhere that a big time well known producer claimed the best tweed Deluxe he had ever heard was a preset in a Line 6 Vetta. Big words those. For a long time modelers have been quite good. It's a bit disconcerting to think how good the next generation will be. The current generation is quite good enough for me, in some cases they do things better than tube or analog solid state amps.
     
  14. Cylon

    Cylon Senior Member

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    total bs
     
  15. electronpirate

    electronpirate Member

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    Good story!

    But I'm not sure why this is news. 'A modeler can get some great tones'. Shocker. (Not you OP, but that people in general are amazed that this can happen...)

    Regardless of just how 'progressive' we call ourselves, even on this board. There's still a bit of shock and awe when someone hears something and loves it, then finds out it was a $68 modeler, and suddenly hears 'flaws' in the tone.

    We even had our requisite 'toob amp rulez' guy post in here already.

    Good lesson here for everyone...
     
  16. jrockbridge

    jrockbridge Member

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    I heard a VAmp direct recording that blew me away. Even knowing it was a VAmp, i thought it was killer. The player knew how to tweak and play his gear.
     

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