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What kind of setup should I be looking into for a rock band? Recommendations?

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by fiveightandten, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    -Full rock band (vox, 2 electric guitars, acoustic drums, bass)
    -Small bars and clubs
    -Reinforcement needed for vox and guitar only

    Current situation:
    We have a modern (but very cheap) Yamaha EMX512sc powered mixer and 2 ancient garbage passive 12"s acting as mains, plus wedges. We currently only run vocals though this system and it works, but we're thinking hard about getting the guitar amp volume down and running those through the PA too, instead of getting the volume from the amps.

    Wish list:
    Like everyone, we want clear smooth sound and wide dispersion with minimal overall SPL in these little places. We want the least expensive and least complex setup possible, and with the quickest setup time. I know we can't have it all. I'm looking to buy used to get the most for our money.


    The band wants me to look into something like the Turbosound IP2000, as the form factor and potential to negate monitors are both enticing. But it seems like these setups may not be the best for a full rock band. Going powered (K10/K12, DXR12, IQ12...) would increase our complexity and setup time (is it worth it?).

    What should we be looking at?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  2. stamminen21

    stamminen21 Supporting Member

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    Need a budget. My 3 piece is using:

    Xr18
    2 alto ts212 mains
    2 alto ts212 wedges
    1 jbl prx 618 sub recently purchased.
     
  3. Chris63

    Chris63 Silver Supporting Member

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    Go powered 10 or 12 “for front of hall and 8 or 10 inch monitors. Get a sub(s) also. Use a Digital mixer. Much less weight, easier, and cheaper. Also LED lights.
     
    Floyd Eye likes this.
  4. ksandvik

    ksandvik Member

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    I would get two Yamaha DBR10 self-powered speakers and a used 8 or 12 channel mixer.
     
  5. bob-i

    bob-i Member

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    For what you're doing I'd get a pair of powered mains, some powered monitors and a mixer with enough channels to handle everything. The choices are too many to name.

    My band uses 2-QSCs for mains, 3- EVM for monitors and X18R mixer. The mixer may be overkill for your application.
     
    Floyd Eye likes this.
  6. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    Thanks for the replies everyone. Is there any reason why we couldn't use the mixer that we have for now and just feed the line outs into the powered mains/monitors?

    In terms of a budget; not much. They were hoping to stay under $2K.

    So staying passive isn't even worth exploring?
     
  7. sants

    sants Supporting Member

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    The Turbosound ip3000 was just announced. I’d hold off and look into them. Expected to arrive end of December. They seem to “borrow” much of the design from the LD Maui 44. Spec says 130db and if that holds true they should handle a band no problem. Realistically count on in about 120db. I emailed LD a while ago and they said two of the Maui 44 would handle a rock band.

    I’ll defintely be looking into the ip3000 once there are some real world reviews. Looks like price is $1500 but expect 1100-1200 street
     
    rsm likes this.
  8. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    Thanks for the info. I've read so many varying opinions on whether or not you can get away without monitors for these "line array" type setups. Any insight?

    Our drummer will want a monitor. Could we use a digital mixer, run that into 2 units set behind us (stage R and L), and run a powered monitor for the drummer? Issues with feedback at full band volumes?
     
  9. Voodoo Soul Blues

    Voodoo Soul Blues Supporting Member

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    Do you have a budget?
     
  10. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    Sorry, I thought I mentioned it above. They're looking to keep it under $2K, used stuff presumably (paltry, I know). Though, we're not hurting for money. If it makes sense to spend more, we can.

    We're using absolute garbage now, and it sounds like it. Though, we're playing tiny places and don't need a ton of sound reinforcement. The goal is to get nice sound spread so we're not blasting the people in these bars, and have nice sound overall. It may be nice to mic guitars so we can get rid of the beam coming off those amps, but if running only vox into the PA makes more sense, we can stick with that.

    I'm a guitar player and well versed in recording, but I know very little about piecing together a live sound setup. I just know how to make my amp sound good. Haha.
     
  11. Voodoo Soul Blues

    Voodoo Soul Blues Supporting Member

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    Sorry, missed it....
    Anyway I was in the exact same position recently....guitarist...not well versed in live sound etc.....
    Thanks to the prompting of people on here I got a pair of Yamaha DSR112’s with a sub and a soundcraft ui24......much more than I was planning on spending but man am I happy.....without going on into detail our sound is now like a big high end stereo compared to what we had and super easy to setup/use.

    You can get a great system for what you need for much less I think....
    There is a 12 and a 16 track version of the ui for much less than the 24.....light, portable easy to use and sound great.....highly recommended.
    Then you could get a couple of powered speakers, and maybe a small sub and or a couple 10” powered monitors.....many good suggestions above.....get 10 or 12” mains ....don’t get 15’s......
    Initially I got two 15” for mains......big mistake......very muddy.
    The Yamaha DBR and DXR series are quite good and have a seven year warranty...as are the suggestions above.....I have heard the Alto’s and was impressed for the money......someone I trust also told me the cheaper Turbosound 10” powered speakers have been getting solid reviews for monitors.....
    If you want something really decent I think $2500 is reasonable.....
    This is all just my humble opinion based on my experience.
    I was at first very hesitant about a browser based wireless mixer but now I love it...
    Have Fun!!
     
    RoguePlayer likes this.
  12. MoPho

    MoPho International Man of Leisure Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm pretty sure my DXR/DSR/XR18 setup was in the ballpark of the budget. Negotiating, open box and sales/rebates are your friends. Don't forget to budget for cables which add up. We run everything through the PA but drums. Haven't used but definitely need a monitoring solution for all. Drummer and singer/guitarist use IEMs.
     
  13. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    Whatever you get I would make it scalable. That is buy stuff now that you can still use later if/when you upgrade.

    The EMX512SC, while it is a quality box for what it is ( I have one somewhere) it is not gonna make you sound better and is going to seriously limit your options. Running a sub with it is VERY janky. And you can only have one monitor mix. And trust me, you are going to want monitors.

    If it were me I would buy a pair of quality 12” powered speakers for mains and a powered 10” or 12” speaker as a monitor for each player. And I would get a digital board. Then add a quality 18” subwoofer when you can afford it.
     
    HoboMan likes this.
  14. wpawley

    wpawley Member

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    USED Digital boards are starting to show up for sale. Most of the 16 channel Digital Boards will allow for at least 6 separate Monitor Mix's and allow for some kind of recording interface. There are loads of different brands of powered speakers to be had and the recommendations for any one or 2 brands vary widely. It is very possible to put together a "basic" system for less than $2K that will get you by for practice and gigging small places and be added onto as funds become available. If you are planning on putting the Guitars through the mixer for a quieter stage/performance/recording, make sure you have a board that allows for direct input or be prepared to buy "DI" boxes to match the output of pedal boards to the mixer input. This is what my band does for gigging small venues and for practice. The only time we actually run amps is for larger gig's and for an occasional practice session just to make sure things still work and we can get the "balance" we want. Having someone out front that knows what they are doing with the board helps tremendously when getting the sound set up.
     
  15. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    Bad assumption. Everything should be miced.
     
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  16. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    Thanks for the info. The ui24 looks like overkill for us, but the ui16 looks the part and is reasonably priced. So far, this is looking like the mixer. I'll have to do some more looking around for speakers. Thanks for the suggestions.
     
  17. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    Thanks. What IEM setup are you using, if you don't mind me asking? Anything that lets us bring less speakers is a good thing. Haha.
     
  18. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    Thanks. Yeah, the 512SC gets the job done. But we realize it's far from optimal. Out old unit went down and we needed something quick and cheap to get us through some gigs. But it's time to upgrade now. It would be nice if the mixer on the 512SC could get us through with some new (powered) speakers. But the speakers are where all the money goes, so I don't think hanging on to this will be any help. It seems like powered is the way to go, and this will become a paperweight, unfortunately.
     
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  19. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    Thanks. We're pretty stuffy about our guitar amps, so I don't see those going away. I'd like to avoid micing cabs, so we'll likely go with direct boxes that have cab sim, and just run that from the amp output to the mixer, and keep the physical amps running at low volume. The Radial JDX or Mesa cab clone would work for this. Do you have any other suggestions to check out?
     
  20. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    I don't really think we need to mic drums and bass up to play to 50 people in a bar, but I'm all for learning from you guys. At minimum, our bass player is using an 800W head into a 4x10. He's never a problem, it's the beamy guitar cabs that cause our issues. You really think it's necessary to mic up bass and drums to play to 50 people in a pub?
     

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