What kind of setup should I be looking into for a rock band? Recommendations?

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by fiveightandten, Dec 3, 2017.


  1. fiveightandten

    fiveightandten Member

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    The point of a guitar direct box?
    -Less complex than mic'ing the cab
    -More consistent sound than micing the cab
    -No potential for feedback or bleed
    -Less gear to carry
    -Smaller footprint on stage

    I have digital cab IRs in my recording software and they sound fantastic. The hardware units haven't quite caught up, but they do sound good from my experience.

    I mean, I love my speakers (I have expensive AlNiCo's in my main cabinet), but i'm trying to make this as simple as possible. Have you used modern cab sims with poor results?
     
    Tele81 likes this.
  2. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    i don’t see any of those things as being true!

    mic’ing an amp isn’t hard, you don’t get feedback or bleed into guitar mics unless you’re doing something really wrong, and a 609 laying on the grill cloth takes no more room than the amp itself.

    you also avoid any issues with ground hums from patching into the amps direct.

    the way i see it, if you’re trying to simplify the stage setup then just “sim” the whole amp and use a modeler or something, that way you can leave the amp at home and have super-low stage volume.
     
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  3. sants

    sants Supporting Member

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    Turn down on stage and let the pa do the work. Even in smaller places it will sound better spreading sound evenly through the pa than blasting away on stage to carry the room. If it’s a real tiny place I understand playing the room with vocal pa only. Miking up the drums can add fullness to the sound without making it loud, especially kick and toms.

    If your guys are loud and your drummer heavy handed, it’s not going to be easy.

    I work with a band that pretty much all goes direct and uses IEMs. The drummer hits so hard it almost defeats the purpose. I couldn’t imagine how loud it would be with wedges and amps trying to compete over him.

    I mic everything whenever possible. I get to work with really good musicians who have great touch and dynamics so I’m a little spoiled.
     
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  4. sants

    sants Supporting Member

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    Agreed!
     
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  5. rsm

    rsm Member

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    I haven't tried the iP2000, I have a Bose L1 for many years, it can fill a good size room but more like background music than a show. I'd thought about a pair of iP2000 for stereo separation but it was more than I wanted to spend.

    I use my Alto (2 * TS210 + 1 * T212s sub) for my electronic rigs (one includes 3-4 synths, 1 dj source, and optionally guitar, into a mixer; the other is drum, bass, and two synths into a mixer);
    very clear and it can get very loud. I think the Altos are very good for the price
     
  6. wpawley

    wpawley Member

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    2 or 3 good mic's (2 overhead, 1 kick) will capture drums well enough for personal listening and improvement. No need to go all out buying the most expensive mic's.
     
  7. Bryan Cox

    Bryan Cox Member

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    FWIW, I have the same band set up and I use either my JBL PRX PA (2 x 812/2 x 818) or my Turbosound iP3000 PA. I have a Mackie DL 1608, two iPad 2s, and some cheapo 10" floor wedges. The Turbosound and the JBL PRX set up can both be had for around $3000. You couldn't go wrong with either.

    I always mic the guitar cabs, DI the bass, and mic the kick. Our stage isn't quiet by any means but our crowds love the sound we put out.
     
  8. musekatcher

    musekatcher Member

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    I play with a band that mics the drums and vocals only - balance is good to ok. I play with another band that mics or direct-lines everything except the drums - balance is good. The latter is better, but not needed for the smaller rooms. Both run four to five monitors. Also, two modern powered 12"s, powered monitors and a sub does a lot of gigs before running out of steam. I'm looking at these JBLs or EVs:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-EON612...372614&hash=item46758a7387:g:pswAAOSwfoNaV98V

    or

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PAIR-E...746031&hash=item4aeeaf3fb3:g:JjsAAOSwPcVVzPy5

    With a 2k budget, you could buy 2 mains and 3 monitors, if your board can supply the right line levels. With some shopping, you have money left over to buy an 18" sub - all new prices.

    They've really upgraded speaker technology and pricing a lot recently. I've heard these new 12" powered speakers compared to double 15" passives with hundreds of pounds of amps, and...well you know the answer - oh, and those were Mackies compared to Mackies too. I know the Mackies and EVs are killer, not sure but hopeful the newer Eon's are also killer.
     
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  9. HoboMan

    HoboMan Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm using those EVs for mains & monitors along with a couple of subs. They sound GREAT!. The easily handle small to medium clubs and smaller outdoor "parking lot" festivals.
    I got mine refurbed with warranty directly from EV for $289 from Reverb: https://reverb.com/item/2586144-electro-voice-zlx-12p-12-inch-powered-loudspeaker.
    Makes them one of the better deals out there for powered speakers
     
  10. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    The Yamaha Mixer is perfectly fine for what you are doing. @stamminen21 's rig using the Behringer XR-18
    is a better match for a rock band - the additional EQ, Compression and a little bit cleaner Effects plus the
    WiFi iPad mixing would make for better logistics on show site - plus you can save scenes - so the next
    time you are at the same bar you already have the mix that worked.

    IMO buying a used XR-18 or QSC Touchmix 16 are tremendous values. Speakers
    - there are many choices - I am a proponent of QSC's K Series for simplicity and
    bang for the buck.


    I think those are good systems - but not for a rock band. They don't have the dynamics
    to cut through even medium volume full bands.

    We use the K10s and K8s. With a Sub Cabinet the K10s are quite amazing.
    If the mix is only going to be vocals and guitars (might as well put the bass
    and keyboards in the mix) you can use the K10s/sub almost anywhere indoors.

    The K10's also make excellent monitors - the K8's as well - except the horn dispersion on
    the K8s is 105º - which is very wide for monitors.
     
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  11. musekatcher

    musekatcher Member

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    That is a killer deal. I've played thru these also, but cost more:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mackie-SRM...900707&hash=item3d4bf9e15f:g:d3wAAOSwY~laFeZH

    I was skeptical, till I played thru these, in direct comparison with a massive house system of passives and amp tonnage - same brand. These new bi-amped, class D, neodymium speakers with optimized cabinets have quietly exceeded what was possible before. Total game changer for those of us still stuck in yesteryear dragging large passives. I'm a skeptics skeptic, but these new speakers are for real.
     
  12. Tele81

    Tele81 Member

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    In my band both myself and my other guitarist are using line 6 helix’s direct into board and using k10.2s as our monitors. Love it! Helix goes in a back pack and the QSCs at easy to move around. Everything sounds so much cleaner going direct.
     
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