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What Les Paul do I have an how much is it worth?

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by TFC, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. TFC

    TFC Supporting Member

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    A few months ago a friend gave me his old guitar that was taking up too much space in his closet. It's a cool guitar and sounds good, but I could use less stuff and more money at the moment, so I'm probably going to sell it. My friend said he's cool with me selling it, but if it's worth $10,000 or more, he wants a cut. I know it's not worth that much but I'll probably give him a cut anyway. I don't know much about Les Pauls so I'm hoping you guys can give me some info about it and a ballpark value so that I can ask a fair price for it.



    Here is some info about the guitar.
    • Serial #: 123472
    • 3 piece headstock
    • "pancake" body with 2 layers
    • Pickups: Have a "T" on front; Patent No 2 737 842 on the back. They both have solder on both sides of the bases, so I'm guessing they used to have covers on them. It also looks like there used to be a 3rd pickup in between the neck and bridge pickups but the space has been filled in.
    • Neck: broken and repaired; the repair is decent but not perfect; has a small volute at the base of the head stock
    • Pots: based on the serial numbers they appear to be from 1985 & 1986
    Based on what I've been able to find out online, this is a 1972 or 1973 and the pickups might be original. Did I get that right? What would be a fair price to list this for on TGP?

    [EDITED to add links to more photos:
    post #32
    post #122]
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  2. Brommm

    Brommm Member

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    Headstock looks funny - good chance its not a legit gibson based on those photos.
     
  3. woof*

    woof* Member

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  4. D K Souther

    D K Souther Member

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    Looks like a 70s “Lawsuit” guitar to me? Hard to tell exactly from the pics. Take a pic in the control cavities and under the pickups?
     
    joesatch, woof* and Mr Shades like this.
  5. DiAmoroso

    DiAmoroso Member

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    I'm far from a Gibson expert, but that looks very fake to me.
     
  6. Bob Pollock

    Bob Pollock Silver Supporting Member

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    I don't believe that's a Gibson.

    Edit: After seeing the second set of pics, I'm leaning towards an early 70's Deluxe with amateur repairs/mods. Poor thing....
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  7. sunking101

    sunking101 Member

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    The Gibson inlaid logo looks miserably bogus for starters....
     
  8. TFC

    TFC Supporting Member

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    Wow, this surprises me. Such a skeptical group but maybe you're right. I'll take more photos tomorrow when I get a chance of the electronics cavity and the back of the pickups. Are there other things to check out or photograph that would confirm whether or not it's a real Gibson?
     
  9. Surfreak

    Surfreak Member

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    What you have is not a Gibson guitar.

    Just a list of the most obvious tell tales:

    - wrong headstock shape
    - wrong Gibson logo
    - wrong Les Paul model script, font and placement
    - no stamped serial number
    - wrong nut
    - changed tuners
    - wrong inlay material and shape
    - wrong fretboard binding thickness (and possible refret)
    - wrong cutaway shape and top carve
    - bridge and tailpiece position appears off, but it could be a photo artifact.

    Even if the pickups were real T-tops, I don’t think this guitar is worth much more than $ 200
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  10. Bearston

    Bearston Member

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    If I remember correctly, the pancake body was the "Deluxe" model. The volute is a dead giveaway for a Norlin era Gibby. Looks nothing like a fake, just a questionable refinish job. The Schaller tuners will obviously give a different look than the original Keystone tuners and may look out of place due to those huge washers around the tuning post. I suspect this one started life out as a Deluxe and was subsequently routed out for full-size HBs. I suspect that the middle p/u rout was done at the same time to give it that Peter Frampton look. Obviously the git has been refinished as can be seen with the filled in serial number, pick away at it to reveal said s/n and compare to Gibson logs. The "Les Paul" decal is not properly applied and is missing the word "model" underneath the script on the right. Other than that it looks spot on to the '75 Deluxe in my hands right now. In its current shape, I would expect to get no more than $2k given the changes and poor execution.
     
  11. HTSMetal

    HTSMetal Member

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    Even if this began its life as a legitimate Gibson (which a couple of the specs are reminiscent of the 70's, but the vast majority are extremely poorly done and very obviously aftermarket/fake), it's been through the ringer to the extent that I doubt anyone would pay any more than $1000 for it in it's current condition assuming you could somehow conclusively identify it as a Gibson.

    What it looks like from the photos:

    - Definitely a bad refin
    - Had a third pickup at some point -- whether this was stock or aftermarket who knows, and the fill was extremely poorly done -- the paint is peeling back like spray paint would
    - Aftermarket Gibson logo (and just look at how much headstock they cut out or masked off to install it) and Les Paul logo in the wrong position and obviously not legit or original
    - Really rough inlay work
    - 3 piece neck and volute which many 70's Gibsons had

    I say keep it secret, keep it safe...don't unleash that thing on the world. Things are already bad enough as it is. :D
     
    Peacefrog78, IAO, keenan and 8 others like this.
  12. skydog

    skydog Supporting Member

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    Even if this is a Gibson(doubtful), you'd be lucky to get a grand.
     
  13. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy Member

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    Headstock is the wrong size/shape for that era. Signature too low, and Gibson logo is definitely wonky.
    Something about the top carve doesn't look right either but I could be wrong on that.
    Volute looks right, but those necks were three-piece maple and it took a lot to break them.
    Pickups do look to be Gibson T-tops.
    Bridge & tailpiece look artificially aged but could be replacement hardware. Or just old I guess.

    Doesn't look like a Chibson though.

    Certainly a refin; my best guess would be a lawsuit era copy that somebody refinished.
    I guess it could be a refinished Deluxe but to me the headstock shape just doesn't look right.
     
    Jayyj, JPH118 and JosephZdyrski like this.
  14. Dr.Twang!

    Dr.Twang! Supporting Member

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    Short final, gear down.
    The best thing is you shouldn’t have to split any money with your seller.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  15. billyguitar

    billyguitar Member

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    Replace the pickups with some cheap hummers and sell the guitar cheap because it is a fake. The pickups are worth more than the whole guitar.
     
  16. TFC

    TFC Supporting Member

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    Though you can't see it in my photos, there is a stamped serial number, 123472, which dates it to 71-73. Keep the opinions coming....
     
  17. Cheddar Kung Pao

    Cheddar Kung Pao Member

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    Since the whole headstock is entirely wrong the stamped serial number means nothing.
     
  18. COYS

    COYS Supporting Member

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    Nothing about that looks like a Gibson. I think this is an imported counterfeit from the 70s or 80s.

    In any case it's got a headstock break, a hack job middle pickup mod, and even if the pickups are real 1970s T-tops, it's not worth much. Certainly less than $1000, probably more like 300-500
     
  19. COYS

    COYS Supporting Member

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    Also, it'll be hard to sell. It's not permitted to sell counterfeit merchandise on an online site like ebay or reverb. You'd have to find a Craigslist buyer who wants to spend that sort of coin on a beater guitar.
     
    keenan, dank and ckfoxtrot like this.

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