What scale is this?

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by jzilla, Jan 26, 2012.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Jan 26, 2012 #1
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    I'm sure every configuration of western tones has been named something. Does anyone know this one (similar to hungarian minor)?

    1,2,b3,#4,#5,6,7

    Thanks,
    -j
     
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    #1
  2. Jan 26, 2012 #2
    Seraphine

    Seraphine Member

    Messages:
    3,615
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
    Seraphine, Jan 26, 2012
    Seraphine, Jan 26, 2012
    #2
  3. Jan 26, 2012 #3
    Motterpaul

    Motterpaul Tone is in the Ears

    Messages:
    10,499
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Location:
    Encinitas, SoCal
    Can a real scale have a three semitone jump in it? that b3 to #4 is a minor third. I vote for the Arabian scale.
     
    Motterpaul, Jan 26, 2012
    Motterpaul, Jan 26, 2012
    #3
  4. Jan 26, 2012 #4
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    absolutely. a pentatonic scale is real, right? it's technically an augmented 2nd in this case. but a scale can have any arrangement of notes over any number of octaves.

    cheers,
    -j
     
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    #4
  5. Jan 26, 2012 #5
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    thanks seraphine! i guess it be considered that with an omission. i wonder though, if it already has a name as is...
     
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    #5
  6. Jan 26, 2012 #6
    russ6100

    russ6100 Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    yep. The Symmetrical Augmented has m3 intervals.
     
    russ6100, Jan 26, 2012
    russ6100, Jan 26, 2012
    #6
  7. Jan 26, 2012 #7
    celticelk

    celticelk Member

    Messages:
    1,776
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Sure - harmonic minor and its modes all have that three-semitone interval (flat 6 to natural 7 in harmonic minor), though this particular scale is not a harmonic minor mode. No idea what you'd call it, or where it might be useful other than perhaps over a fully diminished chord (#4 standing in for b5).
     
    celticelk, Jan 26, 2012
    celticelk, Jan 26, 2012
    #7
  8. Jan 26, 2012 #8
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    it's useful wherever you make it useful! what kind of question is that? hahaha...

    been reading persichetti's book 'twentieth century harmony'. has a great chapter on scales that is very freeing.
     
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 26, 2012
    #8
  9. Jan 27, 2012 #9
    celticelk

    celticelk Member

    Messages:
    1,776
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    I meant that I don't see an obvious chord for which it is an appropriate choice as a scale for soloing. Compositionally, of course, all bets are off.

    Thanks for the Persichetti reference! I'll get that from my library.
     
    celticelk, Jan 27, 2012
    celticelk, Jan 27, 2012
    #9
  10. Jan 27, 2012 #10
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    I suppose you could use the second mode over altered dominants...

    Yeah, that persichetti book is really great. It's not a jazz book but I see no reason why these ideas can't be applied in the jazz context (and probably already are...).

    Cheers!
    -j
     
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    #10
  11. Jan 27, 2012 #11
    Seraphine

    Seraphine Member

    Messages:
    3,615
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    ... with A... I'm doing Am-C-F7-F9

    I like this Arabian slash whatnot of yours for the major minor feel and the almost record skipping double-take it offers of a cadence... if used for such...

    Thanks for the ideas man....
     
    Seraphine, Jan 27, 2012
    Seraphine, Jan 27, 2012
    #11
  12. Jan 27, 2012 #12
    kimock

    kimock Member

    Messages:
    12,604
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Location:
    Where the Palm Tree meets the Pine
    It's a mode of Romanian Major:rotflmao

    Jeth's mode.

    Petrushka chord with an extra piece of chicken maybe. . . That's probably the meat of it functionally, huh? Triads a tri-tone apart, right?
     
    kimock, Jan 27, 2012
    kimock, Jan 27, 2012
    #12
  13. Jan 27, 2012 #13
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    I almost googled 'romanian major'. hahaha. (yeah, i don't like those 'ethnic' names. eg the oriental scale...)

    Ah! Would you say it's the third mode of Jeth's mode? I hadn't heard of that... I'll have to spend some time with the Petrushka score. Thanks for chiming in Steve!

    -j

    ps glad this triggered some ideas seraphine. post some clips if you can!
     
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    #13
  14. Jan 27, 2012 #14
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Actually, I was wrong about it being Jeth's mode starting on the 3rd scale degree. I'm not sure I see them being the same collection of notes.

    ??

    -j
     
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    #14
  15. Jan 27, 2012 #15
    kimock

    kimock Member

    Messages:
    12,604
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Location:
    Where the Palm Tree meets the Pine
    :huh Yeah, I was thinking "mode of Jeth's", but maybe I've got it wrong.
    You're scale is 2 1 3 2 1 2 1, correct?
    Jeth's, 1 3 2 1 2 1 2?

    If I screwed that up, that's the problem.:bonk
     
    kimock, Jan 27, 2012
    kimock, Jan 27, 2012
    #15
  16. Jan 27, 2012 #16
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    I'm haven't seen that scale notation. How does it work?

    My scale as compared to a major scale is 1 2 b3 #4 #5 6 7 or using set notation 0, 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 11. Thanks!

    -j
     
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 27, 2012
    #16
  17. Jan 27, 2012 #17
    kimock

    kimock Member

    Messages:
    12,604
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Location:
    Where the Palm Tree meets the Pine
    Semi tones. From your 1 to 2 would be my first "2", then from your 2 to b3 would be "1", from your b3 to #4 would be "3" etc.
    Distance in semi-tones, right?
     
    kimock, Jan 27, 2012
    kimock, Jan 27, 2012
    #17
  18. Jan 28, 2012 #18
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Ah, of course! Yup, 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 is right. So it is in fact different from Jeth's mode (which I'll have to check out...)
     
    jzilla, Jan 28, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 28, 2012
    #18
  19. Jan 28, 2012 #19
    cubistguitar

    cubistguitar Member

    Messages:
    5,333
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Location:
    Augusta GA
    think kimock's onto something.... if the scale is in C then it contains DF#A and AbCEb , throw in the B and voila. Those darn triad pairs sneak in again , and the classic triads @ tritone too!!
     
    cubistguitar, Jan 28, 2012
    cubistguitar, Jan 28, 2012
    #19
  20. Jan 30, 2012 #20
    jzilla

    jzilla Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    that's right! interesting... IIRC takemitsu uses two pentatonic scales with roots a tritone apart for 'a flock descends into the pentagonal garden'. another good example...
     
    jzilla, Jan 30, 2012
    jzilla, Jan 30, 2012
    #20
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page