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What scale is this?

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
I'm sure every configuration of western tones has been named something. Does anyone know this one (similar to hungarian minor)?

1,2,b3,#4,#5,6,7

Thanks,
-j
 

Motterpaul

Tone is in the Ears
Messages
13,081
Can a real scale have a three semitone jump in it? that b3 to #4 is a minor third. I vote for the Arabian scale.
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
Can a real scale have a three semitone jump in it? that b3 to #4 is a minor third. I vote for the Arabian scale.
absolutely. a pentatonic scale is real, right? it's technically an augmented 2nd in this case. but a scale can have any arrangement of notes over any number of octaves.

cheers,
-j
 

celticelk

Member
Messages
1,937
Can a real scale have a three semitone jump in it? that b3 to #4 is a minor third. I vote for the Arabian scale.
Sure - harmonic minor and its modes all have that three-semitone interval (flat 6 to natural 7 in harmonic minor), though this particular scale is not a harmonic minor mode. No idea what you'd call it, or where it might be useful other than perhaps over a fully diminished chord (#4 standing in for b5).
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
it's useful wherever you make it useful! what kind of question is that? hahaha...

been reading persichetti's book 'twentieth century harmony'. has a great chapter on scales that is very freeing.
 

celticelk

Member
Messages
1,937
it's useful wherever you make it useful! what kind of question is that? hahaha...

been reading persichetti's book 'twentieth century harmony'. has a great chapter on scales that is very freeing.
I meant that I don't see an obvious chord for which it is an appropriate choice as a scale for soloing. Compositionally, of course, all bets are off.

Thanks for the Persichetti reference! I'll get that from my library.
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
I meant that I don't see an obvious chord for which it is an appropriate choice as a scale for soloing. Compositionally, of course, all bets are off.

Thanks for the Persichetti reference! I'll get that from my library.
I suppose you could use the second mode over altered dominants...

Yeah, that persichetti book is really great. It's not a jazz book but I see no reason why these ideas can't be applied in the jazz context (and probably already are...).

Cheers!
-j
 

Seraphine

Member
Messages
3,600
I suppose you could use the second mode over altered dominants...

Yeah, that persichetti book is really great. It's not a jazz book but I see no reason why these ideas can't be applied in the jazz context (and probably already are...).

Cheers!
-j
... with A... I'm doing Am-C-F7-F9

I like this Arabian slash whatnot of yours for the major minor feel and the almost record skipping double-take it offers of a cadence... if used for such...

Thanks for the ideas man....
 

kimock

Member
Messages
12,520
I'm sure every configuration of western tones has been named something. Does anyone know this one (similar to hungarian minor)?

1,2,b3,#4,#5,6,7

Thanks,
-j
It's a mode of Romanian Major:rotflmao

Jeth's mode.

Petrushka chord with an extra piece of chicken maybe. . . That's probably the meat of it functionally, huh? Triads a tri-tone apart, right?
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
It's a mode of Romanian Major:rotflmao

Jeth's mode.

Petrushka chord with an extra piece of chicken maybe. . . That's probably the meat of it functionally, huh? Triads a tri-tone apart, right?
I almost googled 'romanian major'. hahaha. (yeah, i don't like those 'ethnic' names. eg the oriental scale...)

Ah! Would you say it's the third mode of Jeth's mode? I hadn't heard of that... I'll have to spend some time with the Petrushka score. Thanks for chiming in Steve!

-j

ps glad this triggered some ideas seraphine. post some clips if you can!
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
Actually, I was wrong about it being Jeth's mode starting on the 3rd scale degree. I'm not sure I see them being the same collection of notes.

??

-j
 

kimock

Member
Messages
12,520
Actually, I was wrong about it being Jeth's mode starting on the 3rd scale degree. I'm not sure I see them being the same collection of notes.

??

-j
:huh Yeah, I was thinking "mode of Jeth's", but maybe I've got it wrong.
You're scale is 2 1 3 2 1 2 1, correct?
Jeth's, 1 3 2 1 2 1 2?

If I screwed that up, that's the problem.:bonk
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
You're scale is 2 1 3 2 1 2 1, correct?
Jeth's, 1 3 2 1 2 1 2?
I'm haven't seen that scale notation. How does it work?

My scale as compared to a major scale is 1 2 b3 #4 #5 6 7 or using set notation 0, 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 11. Thanks!

-j
 

kimock

Member
Messages
12,520
I'm haven't seen that scale notation. How does it work?

My scale as compared to a major scale is 1 2 b3 #4 #5 6 7 or using set notation 0, 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 11. Thanks!

-j
Semi tones. From your 1 to 2 would be my first "2", then from your 2 to b3 would be "1", from your b3 to #4 would be "3" etc.
Distance in semi-tones, right?
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
Semi tones. From your 1 to 2 would be my first "2", then from your 2 to b3 would be "1", from your b3 to #4 would be "3" etc.
Distance in semi-tones, right?
Ah, of course! Yup, 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 is right. So it is in fact different from Jeth's mode (which I'll have to check out...)
 

cubistguitar

Member
Messages
5,922
think kimock's onto something.... if the scale is in C then it contains DF#A and AbCEb , throw in the B and voila. Those darn triad pairs sneak in again , and the classic triads @ tritone too!!
 

jzilla

Member
Messages
1,498
think kimock's onto something.... if the scale is in C then it contains DF#A and AbCEb , throw in the B and voila. Those darn triad pairs sneak in again , and the classic triads @ tritone too!!
that's right! interesting... IIRC takemitsu uses two pentatonic scales with roots a tritone apart for 'a flock descends into the pentagonal garden'. another good example...
 




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