What’s like a Celestion Gold with a bit more headroom

[smv929]

cEL

My rig: I run my Jackson Britain 30 (a Vox AC30 clone) through two 1x12 cabs. One has a Celestion Gold, the other a ceramic Weber Blue Dog. I tend to like the Gold better. For bigger gigs, where I need more than 30 watts, I’ve been using a Badcat Unleash with good results. For indoor gigs, the setup has been good, and for smaller gigs, it rocks, since it has power scaling, which sounds good as long as you don’t turn it below 12:00. However, I just did a big outdoor gig with a huge stage, and it sounded small. I perceived more breakup than at indoor gigs, even though I was running at the same levels on the amp and Unleash.

I want a similar sound/style of speaker that can handle a little more power before breaking up. I have a couple of EV12Ls that I am going to try out, but I doubt they’ll sound good with my Vox clone (if I’m wrong, let me know).

Thanks!

 

[smolder]

They have a new higher wattage Alnico Cream coming out or already out (so I've heard, not seen).

 

[pale fire]

I have the gold and did side by sides with Jensen Jet Blackbirds...the Jensens have more headroom, and (IMHO) great clean sounds, but the Celestion takes OD better than the Jensen BB. I have also looked at Scumback S75 and WGS Blackhawk ; and while I am not sure what sound you are going for, I think these are worth a listen...

 

[Silent Sound]

Are you sure that headroom limitation you're experiencing is coming from the speaker? Usually, when looking to extend headroom from a speaker, I will choose a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating. The Celestion Gold is rated at 100 dB, making it really efficient. So that leads me to believe the problem probably lies elsewhere.

Anyway, if it is the speaker, I'd avoid any AlNiCo magnets as they're usually designed to compress and distort earlier. Maybe look at a ceramic equivalent of a Gold. I think the Vintage 30 was supposed to be the ceramic version of the Blue, or that's what I was once told.

 

[smv929]

Are you sure that headroom limitation you're experiencing is coming from the speaker? Usually, when looking to extend headroom from a speaker, I will choose a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating. The Celestion Gold is rated at 100 dB, making it really efficient. So that leads me to believe the problem probably lies elsewhere.

You could be right. Some of what I'm hearing very well could be that the 30 watt amp just sounds small on the big stage. I've been using it the past 6 months. Before that I was using 100w and 50w amps through a 2x12 with EV12Ls, which is a lot more iron and magnets. I still like this little amp though. It's a great practice amp and can handle most gigs, especially with the Unleash.

I will check out those other speakers mentioned above. Thanks, guys.

BTW, the sounds I would want include those you'd need in the typical rootsy cover band: blues, r&b, rock, funk. I want headroom for r&b/funk rhythms, but be able to do screaming solos with tones like Stevie Ray or those found in classic rock. I'm able to achieve this for the most part. For the rock side, I'm hankering for a Marshall sound.

 

[DaveKS]

Try the EV's, that should answer your question of wether it's the amp or speaker breaking up.

Might be that for bigger gigs you need more speakers like a 4x12 or a 2x12 you could pair with one of you 1x12.

 

[Cirrus]

Guitar amps tend to sound smaller, thinner, less substantial and generally worse on outdoor stages. I wouldn't change something that's working for me because of bad on-stage sound at an outdoor gig. With no room to reinforce the sound it quickly disperses and as guitarists we're just not that used to that kind of sound. I had the same experience with my AC30 and 2x12 cab.

A lot of it comes from the cab actually - most 1x12 cabs will lack the ability to push low end forward, it's just the physics of the situation, made even worse if it's an open backed cab. At that point what bass you do perceive in a typical indoor setting comes from room modes or acoustic coupling with the stage floor. So on an outdoor stage that's gone and you're just left with some harsh shouty midrange projecting away from the speaker cab and you just need to grin and bear it.

The good news is that the sound the mic hears right on the speaker won't change that much, so you'll still sound as good out front as the soundman is indoors or outdoors.

 

[Teleplayer]

Scumback S75-PVC Alnico

65w version

 

[ekkybedmond]

Yeah what does a Scumnico PVC sound like, in more detail please

 

[smv929]

Try the EV's, that should answer your question of wether it's the amp or speaker breaking up.

Might be that for bigger gigs you need more speakers like a 4x12 or a 2x12 you could pair with one of you 1x12.

I was able to try the Jackson with the 2x12 with EVs and compare to the 1x12 wih a Gold. Surprisingly to me, the EVs sounded great. Neither was better; both were great, just different. The EVs were brighter, so I turned down the Tone Cut knob just a bit. I added a little more gain on the OD pedals, but I was very pleased. Of coruse, the EVs were tight sounding and could get a great SRV tone.

So I anwsered the question whether EVs sound good with a Vox. The question that wasn't answered is will the 30 watt amp (even with an Unleash) seem "small" when I do an outdoor gig. I will find out in a week. There is another outdoor gig. Regardless, I think the tightness of the EVs may help it sound less compressed a bit.

The problem with my test results is my living room is acoustically awesome sounding, and I should not get too excited about dialing in a sound there. The great sustain, even at mild OD settings, rarely translates to the crappy bar rooms I play or to an outdoor gig. Regardless, I think I can tell the EVs are giggable.

I never hear anyone using EVs with a Vox. Anyone doing this and liking it? or disliking it?

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

You can be the first to blaze this trail. Go with what sounds good.

 

[honeyiscool]

Convert your Blue Dog cab into a Celestion Alnico Cream or another Gold. The thing is the Blue Dog is lower sensitivity than your Gold, so it's not contributing enough to your overall output to be reinforcing the Gold much. You gotta match your speakers to get the most out of your multi speaker setup.

 

[smv929]

Convert your Blue Dog cab into a Celestion Alnico Cream or another Gold. The thing is the Blue Dog is lower sensitivity than your Gold, so it's not contributing enough to your overall output to be reinforcing the Gold much. You gotta match your speakers to get the most out of your multi speaker setup.

Really? I thought they were rated the same.

 

[Gretsch&Vox]

 

[Cirrus]

Really? I thought they were rated the same.

My 30w alnico blue dog was quiter than a greenback. I think the ceramic ones are a little louder, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were still quiter than a Celestion Gold.

 

[honeyiscool]

Really? I thought they were rated the same.

Weber doesn't rate their speakers and in any case, ask any user. They're not as efficient as a Celestion.