• The Gear Page Apparel & Merch Shop is Open!

    Based on member demand, The Gear Page is pleased to announce that our Apparel Merch Shop is now open. The shop’s link is in the blue Navigation bar (on the right side), “Shop,” with t-shirts, hats, neck buffs, and stickers to start. Here’s the direct link: www.thegearpageshop.com

    You’ll find exclusive high-quality apparel and merchandise; all items are ethical, sustainably produced, and we will be continuously sourcing and adding new choices. 

    We can ship internationally. All shipping is at cost.


What's this chord?

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
I was playing around and came up with something cool, sounds kinda creepy.

All of it has the low E string droned.

0xx987
0xx986
0xx976
0xx977


Sounds like it 'resolves' on the last one.

What chords am I playing?
Sounds really eerie when you pick the higher strings.

I can shift that position, with the low E droning, to basically any fret and it sounds cool and creepy.

Would love to know what's going on and why it sounds cool everywhere on the fretboard.
 

StanG

Member
Messages
4,669
OP, from reading your recent posts, you are putting a lot of work in and are making great progress. It is probably time to learn all the notes on the fretboard and some basic chord construction theory so that you can identify and organize things like you just came up with.
 
M

Member 995

I hear it as
E minor
E diminished
F#7
Bsus4

To my ear, it resolved back to E minor, especially if you progress from the Bsus4 through B or B7.

It "works" due to parsimonious voice leading and secondary dominants.
 

muzishun

Member
Messages
6,484
OP, from reading your recent posts, you are putting a lot of work in and are making great progress. It is probably time to learn all the notes on the fretboard and some basic chord construction theory so that you can identify and organize things like you just came up with.
Agreed. Very basic but crucial knowledge. Don't overlook this, even pause on the more advanced stuff you are wanting to study.

It will help so much when studying artists styles as you want.

Without it, it's possible to memorize songs or riffs but they will be easily forgotten, as they were never really understood to begin with.
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
OP, from reading your recent posts, you are putting a lot of work in and are making great progress. It is probably time to learn all the notes on the fretboard and some basic chord construction theory so that you can identify and organize things like you just came up with.
I've got a basic understanding of chords and chord theory. I know all the notes on the fretboard if given a second lol.
I'm making some awesome progress.

I came up with that little thing last night while messing around and it just sounded really creepy so I wanted to know what was going on.
I should have sat down and figured out exactly what notes they were but even then I wouldn't have actually known their names - still, I could have put in the effort to learn them.

I hear it as
E minor
E diminished
F#7
Bsus4

To my ear, it resolved back to E minor, especially if you progress from the Bsus4 through B or B7.

It "works" due to parsimonious voice leading and secondary dominants.
No clue what a "parsimonious" voice is but I'll look it up.
The first one as an E minor is funny - it sounds nothing like the standard open E minor, or the bar E minor at the 7th.
Also doesn't sound like the E minor you get from shifting the standard 'open' D minor shape up two frets.

The one I came up with sounds different. Same notes though. Cool.
If the second one is a diminished, then diminished means flat 5th since the only change to that chord is the B on the high E string sliding back.
Sweet. Should have a handle on that now.

I don't know how it turns into an F#7 by shifting the G on the B string to an F#, because it still has the E as the lowest note of the chord, on the D string (not including the droning low E string).
The notes are E, F#, Bb. I would have thought it would be a variation of an E chord again, rather than an F#7.
Must be an inversion.

Is there another name for this chord, that has "E" at the start?

Interesting that the last one could be an Esus2 or a Bsus4 to different people.
I'm assuming depending on how I view the chord would lead me to different ways of using it.

You mentioned it resolved back to E minor to you, if I went through B or B7.

Sounds like something I could turn into a cool little passage over a minor shuffle then - I think I can now apply these 'random' chords into the stuff I'm currently playing.

I learnt how to do a minor shuffle "properly" from "Rumble In Brighton" by The Stray Cats - using the 3rd of the chord as the shuffle not as opposed to my way of doing it which was a sharp 5th as the shuffle note.
I kinda figured a major shuffle goes up a whole step so a minor would probably do a half step but yeah the Stray Cats way sounds way better.

I think I could use this passage I've came up with to go over some kind of turn around.

If I take it a step further and apply a little something Setzer does all the time - and also something I learnt from the Rockabilly Survival: Lead course on Truefire - I can mess about with outlining the chords using half step or diatonic approaches to each note, and come up some cool lead lines to sort of imply those weird chords for a turn around but still make it sound like I'm playing "lead" guitar and not just picking a chord.

Man, I think it's all kinda falling into place in my brain.
Just gotta shift that into my fingers..

Agreed. Very basic but crucial knowledge. Don't overlook this, even pause on the more advanced stuff you are wanting to study.

It will help so much when studying artists styles as you want.

Without it, it's possible to memorize songs or riffs but they will be easily forgotten, as they were never really understood to begin with.
Yeah, I'm not a total noob, I know the notes on the board and can construct a chord.
I don't know as much as I thought I did though.

Too true about the forgetting riffs thing. If I start understanding the theory a bit more, and can turn licks and stuff into numbers in a scale or whatever as opposed to frets on the board, I'll understand what's going on more and be apply to more easily apply what I learn to other stuff.

It is coming together for me though, between some things I've read here on TGP, courses from online and picking things out of songs, it's starting to make a little more sense.

I know now for instance, thanks to a member here - that SRV shifts the basic minor pentatonic box around to go over the 4 and 5 chords all the time, so he can repeat the same licks but it sounds different. This opened up the fretboard to me so much.

I can apply that "knowledge" to these chords I've came up with, and will be able to play the same chords over all of the chords in a progression - so I should really be able to mess about and turn this into more than just a turnaround.

There's no reason I couldn't shift these shapes over to the relevant A and B areas on the fretboard, and play these chords over a whole progression in E, for instance.

I'd obviously forget about the shifting positions thing when I started writing this post, but hey, it's clicking. >_<
 

muzishun

Member
Messages
6,484
Confused.

If you know the notes, why are you asking what chord?

I am not a bullshitter, unless you missed it.

If you don't understand what those notes mean, as in basic theory, then.....

My assessment and advice given here and in your other threads is dead on, and you would benefit greatly from some basic theory.

And that the cart is coming before the horse.

Or worse, you are putting too much into what we think, wink.
 
M

Member 995

No clue what a "parsimonious" voice is but I'll look it up.
"Parsimonious" just means frugal/efficient - preserving common tones between chords. You can get away with quite a bit harmonically if you don't change things too drastically - a note or two up/down can sound great, even if it isn't diatonic. The ear is pretty forgiving.

The first one as an E minor is funny - it sounds nothing like the standard open E minor, or the bar E minor at the 7th.
Also doesn't sound like the E minor you get from shifting the standard 'open' D minor shape up two frets.
Your voicing is like an open A minor chord moved up seven frets. It is actually root position for the chord.

If the second one is a diminished, then diminished means flat 5th since the only change to that chord is the B on the high E string sliding back.
Sweet. Should have a handle on that now.
You got it. A diminished triad is just a root, minor third, and flat 5th.

I don't know how it turns into an F#7 by shifting the G on the B string to an F#, because it still has the E as the lowest note of the chord, on the D string (not including the droning low E string).
The notes are E, F#, Bb. I would have thought it would be a variation of an E chord again, rather than an F#7.
Must be an inversion.
F#7 is f#, a#, c#, and e. You can get away with dropping the fifth in a seventh chord.

Is there another name for this chord, that has "E" at the start?
You could come up with a name (it has a 2 and a #4/b5), but I'd go with how I hear it.

Interesting that the last one could be an Esus2 or a Bsus4 to different people.
That's a property of suspended chords. One man's root/fourth/fifth is another's root/second/fifth.

You mentioned it resolved back to E minor to you, if I went through B or B7.
You don't even have to, it just makes the resolution stronger.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
Confused.

If you know the notes, why are you asking what chord?

I am not a bullshitter, unless you missed it.

If you don't understand what those notes mean, as in basic theory, then.....

My assessment and advice given here and in your other threads is dead on, and you would benefit greatly from some basic theory.

And that the cart is coming before the horse.

Or worse, you are putting too much into what we think, wink.
Don't really know chord names for the weird stuff.
Yeah I could do with some more theory knowledge.

I did a music course at TAFE a few years ago and kinda thought I had music theory covered, but I actually know way less than I thought I did now that I'm learning more.

Don't know what your last line means.
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
"Parsimonious" just means frugal/efficient - preserving common tones between chords. You can get away with quite a bit harmonically if you don't change things too drastically - a note or two up/down can sound great, even if it isn't diatonic. The ear is pretty forgiving.

Your voicing is like an open A minor chord moved up seven frets. It is actually root position for the chord.

You got it. A diminished triad is just a root, minor third, and flat 5th.

F#7 is f#, a#, c#, and e. You can get away with dropping the fifth in a seventh chord.

You could come up with a name (it has a 2 and a #4/b5), but I'd go with how I hear it.

That's a property of suspended chords. One man's root/fourth/fifth is another's root/second/fifth.

You don't even have to, it just makes the resolution stronger.
Ah, you're right. The first one totally is just an Am shifted up to the 7th.
Cheers on the diminished tip - didn't realise a diminished chord also needed the minor third (thought it could be major or minor) - very handy, wrote this down in my little notebook.
Didn't know I could drop the 5th in a 7th chord. Also handy. This'll free me up a bit for lead stuff.

I knew chords can all have different names depending on the context, I guess it's just however I see 'em at the time..
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
musictheory.net
and get yourself Harmony by Walter Piston. Read it on the throne everyday and at the piano (but wash your hands).
Cheers mate.
I don't have a piano but will see if I can scout the book out online.
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
If you walked away from a music theory course thinking you had it covered, but don't know what a diminished triad is ... I don't know what to say. Get your money back, maybe?
It was only like 1 year at TAFE and was in about 2008.
I don't remember a whole lot of what I learnt there at all. It was mostly about performing in front of people, practising songs and learning how to use Cakewalk.

I wasn't in that course as a guitar player though - I was there as a vocalist, I did take notes down but I must have missed this stuff - I probably wasn't paying as much attention to this stuff as I should have been.

The time wasn't wasted though, I somehow did pretty well and the grades I got from that course actually helped me slip into the law degree I'm doing at the moment.. so I mean, it was kinda productive.
 

muzishun

Member
Messages
6,484
Don't really know chord names for the weird stuff.
Yeah I could do with some more theory knowledge.

I did a music course at TAFE a few years ago and kinda thought I had music theory covered, but I actually know way less than I thought I did now that I'm learning more.

Don't know what your last line means.
Ya I agree it's possible to study theory but not really get it, as far as application.

So, if you know the notes, the first chord is E,E,G,B. E minor. The rest, since we are keeping the E bass, are just extensions of Em.

Mostly.
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
Ya I agree it's possible to study theory but not really get it, as far as application.

So, if you know the notes, the first chord is E,E,G,B. E minor. The rest, since we are keeping the E bass, are just extensions of Em.

Mostly.
Yeah that first one I could have got if I'd actually worked out what notes they were before making the thread.
Wouldn't have known I was playing a diminished, nor that one of the chords was an F#7 (I just assumed they were all something to do with E).

Definitely need to understand more theory.
Especially for rockabilly stuff - there's loads of jazzy sounding stuff, diminished scales, whole-tone scales, substitutions etc etc.. learnt a fair bit of this last night from the Rockabilly Survival: Lead course on Truefire.
Augmented stuff.

There's this whole "chord melody" approach to playing that seems to have a pretty heavy theory side to it - I could use that as a practical way to put what I'm learning into my guitar work.

I'm the kinda guy who learns from doing things, not so much reading about things or taking notes.
I need to actually play the chords on the guitar and physically pick out a diminished triad on the guitar for my brain to start registering it.

Since I wasn't playing guitar back in that music course, yeah, no chance any of that was going to get passed on.

It sorta boils down to practice, practice, practice, doesn't it?
Even with theory, for me.
 

guitarjazz

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
22,210
Yeah that first one I could have got if I'd actually worked out what notes they were before making the thread.
Wouldn't have known I was playing a diminished, nor that one of the chords was an F#7 (I just assumed they were all something to do with E).

Definitely need to understand more theory.
Especially for rockabilly stuff - there's loads of jazzy sounding stuff, diminished scales, whole-tone scales, substitutions etc etc.. learnt a fair bit of this last night from the Rockabilly Survival: Lead course on Truefire.
Augmented stuff.

There's this whole "chord melody" approach to playing that seems to have a pretty heavy theory side to it - I could use that as a practical way to put what I'm learning into my guitar work.

I'm the kinda guy who learns from doing things, not so much reading about things or taking notes.
I need to actually play the chords on the guitar and physically pick out a diminished triad on the guitar for my brain to start registering it.

Since I wasn't playing guitar back in that music course, yeah, no chance any of that was going to get passed on.

It sorta boils down to practice, practice, practice, doesn't it?
Even with theory, for me.
No heavy theory is needed at all to play chord/melody...just melody and chords. No need to analyze it before you have even played. The only analyzing you might ever do is go 'mmm that chord progression (or melody)reminds me of another tune. Not rocket science if you have an ear and took Chet's course C.O.D.
 

stevel

Member
Messages
14,784
One of the issues with defining these chords is that they are only triads. To truly define them you'd need more context.
I'm not sure why you said this. Triads are chords. E-G-B is E minor. E-G-Bb is Eo.

E-F#-A# is a "tetrad" - F#7/E without the 5th. While there could be more context on that this is a typical way in which this chord appears and a typical context in which it's encountered so while other names might be possible it's a "safe" choice.

Same with the last chord - E-F#-B - sounds and likely acts like a Bsus4 in this context. Could be other things but again this is a typical idea and this is the typical name for a chord in this context.

I mean, they way they're presented is the context here.

Best,
Steve
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
No heavy theory is needed at all to play chord/melody...just melody and chords. No need to analyze it before you have even played. The only analyzing you might ever do is go 'mmm that chord progression (or melody)reminds me of another tune. Not rocket science if you have an ear and took Chet's course C.O.D.
Haven't taken Chet's course C.O.D, I'll see if I can find it.
Elliott Smith used chord melody loads in his songwriting, I just assumed when you get into all the chord extensions and stuff that some theory would be useful.

Cheers mate.
 




Trending Topics

Top