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When do you all believe music started to decline?

redturtle

Member
Messages
445
There's a difference between being influenced vs stealing. Hell, you could say American blues music was "stolen" from western African music based on your logic. Doesn't mean it was stolen. However, Ton Loc's song "Wild Thing" clearly stole the entire snippet of the song "Jamie's Cryin". They didn't even bother to record it with their own instruments. Huge, difference. You're not telling me anything I don't know that rock is really a sped up faster version of blues, country, etc.
One culture's "influence" is another culture's "appropriation" which are adjacent enough to "stealing" that they're kissing cousins!
 

ThemBones24

Member
Messages
55
I dont disagree that there is a ton of great music and great artists working right now, but is there any genre of music that it is in its golden era as we speak?

IS there one song that is current right now that will be remembered in 50years time?

That's the issue. I don't think there is as many timeless songs from the newer generation of music today. It all sounds way too much a like (same rapping over break, same female voice singing the chorus part, similar electronic drums, etc.).
 

wzpgsr

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
167
There's a difference between being influenced vs stealing. Hell, you could say American blues music was "stolen" from western African music based on your logic. Doesn't mean it was stolen. However, Ton Loc's song "Wild Thing" clearly stole the entire snippet of the song "Jamie's Cryin". They didn't even bother to record it with their own instruments. Huge, difference. You're not telling me anything I don't know that rock is really a sped up faster version of blues, country, etc.

Sure, but even within rock music proper there are all sort of publishing controversies, lawsuits, etc. re: people stealing from each other. You don’t need to single out rap music—that’s disingenuous. (I even agree with you some to extent that some sampling is more egregious than others, by the way.) My larger point is that this is called....culture. Putting aside the legal / licensing / publishing / financial concerns of our era, this is what culture is. Without judging the practice of sampling / stealing / browsing—whenever you want to call it, it did not start with rap. Some have borrowed and elevated it to a new kind of art. Some have shamelessly ripped off someone else’s work. In all genres, not just rap.

In regard to punk rockers and playing out of tune guitars...one would thing you haven’t listened to much live Hendrix or the Rolling Stones with a comment like that. I don’t think it’s the “out of tune” part you dislike.
 

Stx

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
264
It was much better through the 80's.
It kinda bugs me when people ridicule those of us who see that.
With all the recording and playing advances, we should be up to our ears in really fun music, and it's consistently just sorta nice.
 

ThemBones24

Member
Messages
55
Sure, but even within rock music proper there are all sort of publishing controversies, lawsuits, etc. re: people stealing from each other. You don’t need to single out rap music—that’s disingenuous. (I even agree with you some to extent that some sampling is more egregious than others, by the way.) My larger point is that this is called....culture. Putting aside the legal / licensing / publishing / financial concerns of our era, this is what culture is. Without judging the practice of sampling / stealing / browsing—whenever you want to call it, it did not start with rap. Some have borrowed and elevated it to a new kind of art. Some have shamelessly ripped off someone else’s work. In all genres, not just rap.

In regard to punk rockers and playing out of tune guitars...one would thing you haven’t listened to much live Hendrix or the Rolling Stones with a comment like that. I don’t think it’s the “out of tune” part you dislike.

I don't give a sh*t if it sounds disingenuous or not. I'm not a new-age liberal. Rap is the lowest form of music in my opinion because it's based mostly off of sampling. It's not far off from karaoke. I can deal with some rap and even like a small percentage of (NWA, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, DMX, etc.). But, a lot of those acts can't stand up to a true rock show like Tool, Rush, Slayer, etc. Not even close. Blues on the other hand is outstanding.
 

GraceToo

Member
Messages
589
IS there one song that is current right now that will be remembered in 50years time?

I mean, I don't have a crystal ball or anything, but I think Blinding Lights is a contender. The official audio video on YouTube has over 567,000,000 views, the official music video has over 481,000,000 views. It has been streamed on Spotify over 2 billion times. Gen Xers still talk about the importance of Thriller today, and I think the Zoomers will still talk about the importance of Blinding Lights when I'm riding around in my electric wheelchair.
 
Messages
1,120
- there is good music today as well, there is no thing as a generalized decline;
- it is, however, much more difficult to find. Good music has gone underground and, if you compare the charts in the past with the current ones, then you can talk about a drastic decline.
It's easier than ever to find good music.

Spotify and YouTube recommendations are pretty good and will keep you busy until your old age. You don't need to do anything--start with an artist you like, bam, that's all they need to start recommending music. Same with Bandcamp.

You have instant access to music from all eras from around the world. This has never been possible and improves the odds of finding something you like a thousandfold.

In the past you'd hear or read about an artist in a magazine and have to schlep to the record store and hope the owner allowed in store listening. Much of the time you didn't like it, so it was a wasted trip. At $10-$20 an album, a mistake was expensive, and people were probably shy about trying new things in case they didn't love that expensive album. Now you can just buy any single track you want, not just the single the record company wanted you to buy, for $0.99. Or listen to an infinite number of albums all day long for the price of one CD per month.
 

redturtle

Member
Messages
445
That's the issue. I don't think there is as many timeless songs from the newer generation of music today. It all sounds way too much a like (same rapping over break, same female voice singing the chorus part, similar electronic drums, etc.).
You don't know that though because for a piece of music, a novel, a film, a tv show, an artwork, etc to be considered a classic or timeless -- it needs the benefit of hindsight when it's no longer contemporary or current.

The 80s are a great example. Even in the 90s, it was hard to really figure out what was "classic" from the 80s (for anything - music, film, etc) because even with a decade of hindsight it was still too contemporary.

And one's tastes, perspectives, feelings or opinions change about what we used to love or hate or were indifferent to. That happens when we grow - not just as individuals but overall. You see things in a different context with hindsight. Certain bands, celebs, etc you see them in a different light when more info comes out as it becomes history. That person was unfairly criticized or attacked (or not as untalented as we all assumed). Or the opposite - they are overrated. Again this happens to us individually and with the culture at large.

ABBA never changed since they broke up in the early 80s (or before?) but opinion of their place has changed. In the late 80s they were a punchline used by many rock musicians and rappers as soft, cheesy, too happy, etc. No red blooded male with their BC Rich Warlock and i-Roc would admit they liked ABBA. That's changed, and while opinions vary, more and more people see them as some of the better (if not amongst the best) pop songwriters of their era.

Journey has gone through the same "journey" -- in the late 80s / early 90s they were a punchline or mocked. But with time, that's changed - no one's ashamed to like Journey. "Don't Stop Believin' went from being cringe in the hair metal and grunge era, to being ironically cheesy when Glee made it popular again, to being "well, it's overplayed and cheesy but it's actually a good song and Steve Perry is a fantastic lead singer".

Disco as a genre went from being reviled by certain circles in the 70s (usually with an undercurrent of other social culture wars), but has undergone a change in opinion - there's some haters out there still who are remnants from the 70s, but by and large it's just... a genre of music. Some love it, some don't, bu it's not the lightning rod it used to be. And now being able to admit that the likes of Niles Rodgers were fantastic musicians as well.

Or the devil worshipping metal of the 80s. We look back now at how silly it was that folks were threatened by it, that they were secret messages encoded in Judas Priest records to brainwash kids, etc. It was an act. But it took time for the mainstream to see it for what it was - mostly harmless. And that it wasn't just "noise" but very musical. Metal went from being dismissed by "serious" musicians, to being highly polarizing in the 80s, to now being... just another music genre. No one's getting triggered by metal.
 
Messages
1,120
Technology is responsible. 1). It introduced other entertainment options, which created less demand for good music. 2). It introduced new sounds. Listen to the late 80's stuff. Lots of gimmicks and studio tricks, but that's what sold.
Reverse delay, expansive use of flangers and phasers and vibe, tape splicing, synthesizers, mellotron, synclavier, etc were hallmarks of celebrated artists starting in the late 1960s.

People in these threads want to hate on today so much it clouds their memories of what things were actually like "back in the day."
 
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Messages
1,120
I don't know about decline. At a certain point some (but not all) people stick with what they know, and then don't feel the need to invest in new music as much as they might have done a few decades before. That leads them to the conclusion that new music isn't worth listening to. I'll admit that a lot of what charts in the UK now leaves me cold, but then I am still finding new (and not new) bands worth listening to through, amongst other things, the What Are You Listening to Now? thread on this forum.
Who cares about the charts? Seriously, the top 40 is 4 albums' worth of music. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of songs get made every year. Pointing to the charts as representative of sales is like looking at two cells under a microscope and diagnosing an entire body.

A few decades ago charts were full of disposable crap too. Other than 25 or so artists who charted in the 1960s and 1970s, there are at least a couple hundred nobody remembers.
 
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ThemBones24

Member
Messages
55
You don't know that though because for a piece of music, a novel, a film, a tv show, an artwork, etc to be considered a classic or timeless -- it needs the benefit of hindsight when it's no longer contemporary or current.

The 80s are a great example. Even in the 90s, it was hard to really figure out what was "classic" from the 80s (for anything - music, film, etc) because even with a decade of hindsight it was still too contemporary.

And one's tastes, perspectives, feelings or opinions change about what we used to love or hate or were indifferent to. That happens when we grow - not just as individuals but overall. You see things in a different context with hindsight. Certain bands, celebs, etc you see them in a different light when more info comes out as it becomes history. That person was unfairly criticized or attacked (or not as untalented as we all assumed). Or the opposite - they are overrated. Again this happens to us individually and with the culture at large.

ABBA never changed since they broke up in the early 80s (or before?) but opinion of their place has changed. In the late 80s they were a punchline used by many rock musicians and rappers as soft, cheesy, too happy, etc. No red blooded male with their BC Rich Warlock and i-Roc would admit they liked ABBA. That's changed, and while opinions vary, more and more people see them as some of the better (if not amongst the best) pop songwriters of their era.

Journey has gone through the same "journey" -- in the late 80s / early 90s they were a punchline or mocked. But with time, that's changed - no one's ashamed to like Journey. "Don't Stop Believin' went from being cringe in the hair metal and grunge era, to being ironically cheesy when Glee made it popular again, to being "well, it's overplayed and cheesy but it's actually a good song and Steve Perry is a fantastic lead singer".

Disco as a genre went from being reviled by certain circles in the 70s (usually with an undercurrent of other social culture wars), but has undergone a change in opinion - there's some haters out there still who are remnants from the 70s, but by and large it's just... a genre of music. Some love it, some don't, bu it's not the lightning rod it used to be. And now being able to admit that the likes of Niles Rodgers were fantastic musicians as well.

Or the devil worshipping metal of the 80s. We look back now at how silly it was that folks were threatened by it, that they were secret messages encoded in Judas Priest records to brainwash kids, etc. It was an act. But it took time for the mainstream to see it for what it was - mostly harmless. And that it wasn't just "noise" but very musical. Metal went from being dismissed by "serious" musicians, to being highly polarizing in the 80s, to now being... just another music genre. No one's getting triggered by metal.

That's true. I'm pretty open-minded to music but I've been getting bored with it lately because I struggle to find anything catchy or original. There's just less and less I like unfortunately. I'd be curious to see if millennials in 20's years are as passionate about their music as 80's generation was with theirs.
 

dirk_benedict

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,497
I mean, I don't have a crystal ball or anything, but I think Blinding Lights is a contender. The official audio video on YouTube has over 567,000,000 views, the official music video has over 481,000,000 views. It has been streamed on Spotify over 2 billion times. Gen Xers still talk about the importance of Thriller today, and I think the Zoomers will still talk about the importance of Blinding Lights when I'm riding around in my electric wheelchair.

Thriller had more going on for it than sheer popularity, but I take your point. Shut Up and Dance has a billion spotify streams as well by comparison. No disrespect meant to that song, but I hope to not be hearing it in a few years.

For the purpose of transparency, I am 44. Music started becoming important to me when I was about 7-8 years old, so the height the of "MTV only played videos" era. It seems to me that people back then (and I'm guessing before that) didn't have to make the case that there was something happening and relevant in music then. There's lots of great stuff happening in music nowadays, I just dont think its as relevant to people as it once was.
 




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