1. The Rules have been updated regarding posting as a business on TGP. Thread with details here: Thread Here
    Dismiss Notice

Which 12" guitar speaker has the best midrange?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by effectsman, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. HaroldBrooks

    HaroldBrooks Member

    Messages:
    2,006
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    He did, and so did his sound engineer, and his guitar techs who had a rather large budget to work with. Don't assume you will have the same ability or results. Make it easy on yourself, use real guitar speakers not PA type speakers. That's what dedicated guitar speaker are there for.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  2. HaroldBrooks

    HaroldBrooks Member

    Messages:
    2,006
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Now your talking !
     
  3. wildschwein

    wildschwein Member

    Messages:
    3,746
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Location:
    Alkimos, Western Australia
    Lots of people have very different ideas about mids. I like the Mesa C90s for higher power applications in small combos but Greenbacks are pretty sweet in a 4x12.
     
    Balok likes this.
  4. De Batz

    De Batz Member

    Messages:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    @HaroldBrooks I think you're giving Celestion a bit too much credit for their work in the 40s and 50s. They had a bunch of speaker designs that were supposed to go in gramophone cabinets, and worked out that some of them sounded decent for MI applications. They didn't set out with a blank sheet and design a speaker from the ground up for guitar.
    I like the sounds that those speakers make, as a general rule, and I don't like the sound of the JBL or EV speakers. But that's a preference, not a claim that the Celestions sound better per se.
     
  5. ianblond

    ianblond Member

    Messages:
    636
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Location:
    Poland
    If Best means that speaker sits in mix perfectly, Scumback H75 sounds great with cleans and dirty sounds .Celestions in general too.
     
    Scumback Speakers likes this.
  6. Giga

    Giga Member

    Messages:
    397
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005

    Celestion G1265's also come in different flavours as I found out the hard way. There are versions that apparently were meant for use in PA columns etc and guitar versions. The Txxxx code on the back of the cone tells you if you have the "right" one.

    Giga
     
  7. Guitar Dave T

    Guitar Dave T Member

    Messages:
    9,044
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere near White Rock Lake, N. Texas
    The "G" on the Celestion speaker model number stands for guitar. This is the first time I've ever heard anything different. Nor can I find any evidence of what you're saying on any celestion website. Can you provide a supporting link?

    In all likelihood, sounds like you may have gotten this from somebody who was regurgitating somebody's spoon-fed ********.

    In the meantime, the inconsistencies I've run across in the G12-65 speaker can easily be attributed to the long breaking period it takes to getting them sounding their best.
     
  8. Guitar Dave T

    Guitar Dave T Member

    Messages:
    9,044
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere near White Rock Lake, N. Texas
    Think you might be a little more succinct, Steve? I mean, you do tend to go on...

    ;-)

    Seriously, what specifically do you take issue with? There is way too much to disagree with in the OP to guess.
     
  9. Giga

    Giga Member

    Messages:
    397
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Easy: Google -> Celestion T codes -> http://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-reference-list.html ;-)

    Giga
     
  10. HaroldBrooks

    HaroldBrooks Member

    Messages:
    2,006
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Yes, sorry should have mentioned, just about every speaker manufacturer does PA speakers as well, Jensen for one, So if you are not careful you could get a dud for your guitar.
     
  11. Guitar Dave T

    Guitar Dave T Member

    Messages:
    9,044
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere near White Rock Lake, N. Texas
  12. Rhythm Rocker

    Rhythm Rocker Member

    Messages:
    1,590
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Location:
    New York
    Sooo much cr@p posted. All by one relentless opinionated member.
     
    wickedcookie likes this.
  13. Guitar Dave T

    Guitar Dave T Member

    Messages:
    9,044
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere near White Rock Lake, N. Texas
    I'm guessing that since I have posted more in this thread than anyone else, you are referring to me?

    Why not just come out and direct your comments to me then? And while you're at it, you might consider saying exactly what it is that you think is crap, rather than sniping from the bushes?

    I welcome a reasoned conversation of disagreeing opinions. Think you are up for it?
     
    HaroldBrooks likes this.
  14. Rhythm Rocker

    Rhythm Rocker Member

    Messages:
    1,590
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Location:
    New York
    Did not mean you, Dave. Carry on.
     
  15. HaroldBrooks

    HaroldBrooks Member

    Messages:
    2,006
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    LOL.
     
  16. Rhythm Rocker

    Rhythm Rocker Member

    Messages:
    1,590
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Location:
    New York
  17. HaroldBrooks

    HaroldBrooks Member

    Messages:
    2,006
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  18. straight outta fuzz

    straight outta fuzz Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Hey Harold. There are many things you say that I completely agree with and only maybe 2 things that I respectfully disagree with.

    For one is that you are basically trying to swim upstream by using a high powered ceramic (ev, jbl,etc. etc.) or alnico (think ev-sro) speaker that was not designed to be used for guitar. Let’s remember that when Fender released those unbelievably lively, dynamic, touch sensitive, sweet sounding tweeds of the 50’s he chose to put Jensen RADIO speakers in his amps. Very similar to the way Randall Smith chose to put ev’s in his early boogie’s as well as Marshall chosing Brit made Celestion’s to go into his Marshall stacks. Marshall was looking for the most powerful Brit made speakers he could find and he settled on the 25 watt greenback. Celestion did accommodate Marshall’s desire for more power and headroom by making a 30 watt version. Contrary to another post in this thread, I’m not exactly sure what the g in a g12 means, but I doubt it stands for guitar cause the g12 was a radio speaker that was around long before guitar amps. In fact, If my history serves me right the very first speakers ever made specifically for guitar was the Celestion blue (one of my all time favorite speakers) that is a huge part of the vintage Vox vibe. The Celestion blue is basically a g12 with a alnico magnet. Of course there are multitudes of speaker companies making speakers specifically for guitar amps these days. Most of them are basically just copying those vintage radio speakers with maybe a few modern twist. To make a long story short ev’s and jbl’s were as much designed for guitar as Celestion and Jensen. Except for maybe the Celestion blue and 30 watt green back, which were both simply a g12 radio speaker with either a alnico or heavier ceramic magnet.

    I think that you’re argument would be way better justified if you were talking high and low wattage speakers instead of comparing if it was designed for guitar or not. The original post was about sweetest midrange. A lot of that classic mids many of us love comes from the speakers overdriving and compressing. So you would be correct in leading the poster away from ev and jbl as those speakers are difficult to compress giving you a flat frequency response. But to say they are dull and not musical couldn’t be further from the truth. It all has to do with the right application and the sound you’re looking for. In some applications a mid heavy compressed speaker can get in the way of your tone. I love Celestions and ev’s. It all has to do with the sound you’re fantasizing about in your head,what amp, cab, style of music, song and venue

    Happy New Years everybody!!!!!!!
     
    aman74 and HaroldBrooks like this.
  19. BADHAK

    BADHAK Member

    Messages:
    7,708
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    My 68 straight with original pre Rola '20' watters has the 'best' woody vintage mids for old school 60's / early 70's classic rock.

    My 77 slant with 55hz 30 watt Blackbacks on top and V30's on bottom has the 'best' aggressive mids for 80's hard rock.

    My 1960ax with Chinese Greenbacks has the 'best' slightly scooped mids that will cover both vintage and modern tones.

    My 82 4104 with the original 12-65's has the 'best' gnarly mids when the guitar vol is up but scoop and sweeten as the guitar is turned down.

    Other amps are vintage 2203's and a clone.
     
  20. De Batz

    De Batz Member

    Messages:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Good analysis. I'm surprised at the way round the Chineses GBs and the Blackbacks sit - I'd have thought the GBs would be woodier and the Blackbacks scoopier, but that just proves that you need to hear things in person rather than making assumptions. I wonder what happens if you listen to them isolated from the V30s...

    For my part, I only have the one 4x12 (a Blackstar Artisan job with V30s) and it's definitely in the aggressive camp. I find the V30s to be quite well balanced at lower gain settings, but they start to smear the attack and develop a focus on that specific high mid frequency that isn't related to the note played when you give them too much drive. That sound works for some music, and can be made to be very present in a band's sound, but it isn't my preference. If I was touring / making money and using the 4x12, I might consider replacing them with something a bit more Greenback-y.

    But I get the sounds I'm most happy with (and use most of the time) with an open-backed 4x10 with P10Rs, so that gives you some idea of my underlying preferences.
     
    BADHAK likes this.

Share This Page