Which amp for Allman Bros/Southern Rock tones?

therhodeo

Member
Messages
10,047
Thanks Prof! Have to agree with you on both Dickey and Warren's tone back then...very different, and just killer. Warren's, with the Soldano, had more overdrive to it, but very smooth. Dickey's had a bell like quality to the highs. His 335 was a big factor as well...Just so good....:bow

I know when Duane was alive he played through 50W Marshalls and Dickey 100W, so Duane's sounded more overdriven. You can hear that in the Blue Sky solos.

Yeah, those 90s videos are fantastic. I still remember seeing that Austin City Limits episode on PBS back then, and was totally floored watching it. I went out and bought Second Set right after seeing that! :)
It's interesting because those 2 live recordings with Dickey & Warren are some of my favorite Allman's stuff ever and Warren wasnt at all using what one would consider a traditional Allman rig.
Using a lace sensor loaded strat into a SLO-100 into EVM-12L's and sounded incredible.
 

joebloggs13

Member
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2,417
The Blue Sky solos was both of them through the same Brownface Fender Super.
Yeah, I've read that also, but it seems like no one knows for sure. There was also another rumour coming from Dickey himself that it was only Duane on the Brownface, and it was a Concert, not a Super....So that still leaves Dickey's solo...I do agree with you about both of them using Fenders on this though. The Tone Chase mystery continues!... :beer
 
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2,900
you nailed it. open 4x12 with d120f's is where the magic is
Lol .. Nailed it .. I took some heat for it here and there though .. But .. It's like rain off of a duck's back ..

Someone was down on the Mace's SS pre-amp .. But .. He didnt sputter .. Or go off on a tirade like some who have posted in the past .. I am fine with the SS pre-amp .. In fact, i rather like it .. It doesnt disappoint .. Especially if your intention is to play fairly clean/clean .. Much better performing amp than some people say .. Great tool in the toolbox .. I mean i have to tell ya, one of the very best amps I have ever played One of the very best amps I have ever played was a Music Man Sixty Five (not the "65" .. The BEST being an old Fender Super .. Crazy tones from that puppy) .. Damn that thing had everything i needed ..

Those Peavey Maces (and Deuces) sound best with open back cabs .. Tight and bright .. Love the bottom end and mids .. Capable of ice-pick highs .. Gotta rein that in .. D12Fs are a great match .. Freakin' superb .. they Mate well .. Im still an EV guy though .. they have been tried and true performance for me for decades
 
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deech54

Member
Messages
354
I have a Germino Club 40, no MV. I mostly play it mostly through an old Epiphone 1/12 cab with a WGS ET-65. Sounds great! Pretty manageable with the 1/12.
 

ProfRhino

Member
Messages
7,387
Is there much difference between a mid 70's JMP and one from say '79 or '80?
except for cosmetics, no - pretty much the same circuit until way into the 800 era for the 4 holers.
voltages may vary a bit.
and they are dead easy to tweak towards 60s specs, close enough at least.
if you really want to get anal about it, you can always exchange the PCB for a turret board matching "your" exact vintage specs and component types.
been there, done that for a unique project (right middle), but most of my '70s JMPs are 98% stock and sound glorious.
some were bought modded & cheap, and restored to original specs internally.
old glass makes a huge difference though, always ! :love:
clockwise :
'76 DR504, '77 DR-103, custom JTM50 / HXDA hybrid, '78 1959, '75 1987, '77 2204 (aftermarket small box, corrected circuit)

ymmv,
Rhino
 

joebloggs13

Member
Messages
2,417
except for cosmetics, no - pretty much the same circuit until way into the 800 era for the 4 holers.
voltages may vary a bit.
and they are dead easy to tweak towards 60s specs, close enough at least.
if you really want to get anal about it, you can always exchange the PCB for a turret board matching "your" exact vintage specs and component types.
been there, done that for a unique project (right middle), but most of my '70s JMPs are 98% stock and sound glorious.
some were bought modded & cheap, and restored to original specs internally.
old glass makes a huge difference though, always ! :love:
clockwise :
'76 DR504, '77 DR-103, custom JTM50 / HXDA hybrid, '78 1959, '75 1987, '77 2204 (aftermarket small box, corrected circuit)

ymmv,
Rhino
Those Hiwatts...Sweet BeJesus... :drool
 

ProfRhino

Member
Messages
7,387
Those Hiwatts...Sweet BeJesus... :drool
... and they can do a pretty decent Dickey too, without external help.
not exactly at bedroom volume, though. :dunno
but I'm using a Suhr RL based recording- and reamp rig, so these trademark Allmans broken cleans come naturally, even with 100 Watters.
imho, that's the essential part of the recipe, to get in the ballpark - not the exact type of Marshall or Fender they used.
power amp saturation and HH guitar with pots rolled back a little. :idea
somebody mentioned Dickey's later Classic 50 rig - same idea, just scaled down a little for smaller stages. Never mind the EL84s.

for Dickey's Warren era tones, turn up the (1959) preamp one more notch, the rest is the same.
bonus : add a Klon(e) with a bit of grit (set up for OD, not as clean boost), and you can get a nice Warren SLO vibe going. Mind you, this is still 80% amp drive, far from the dubious "OD > clean pedal platform" approach.
the beauty of the Klon(e) is that it virtually disappears in this role, it feels like your amp simply had more natural gain, while keeping its base tone intact. :cool:

ymmv, it's just what works for me,
Rhino
 

joebloggs13

Member
Messages
2,417
... and they can do a pretty decent Dickey too, without external help.
not exactly at bedroom volume, though. :dunno
but I'm using a Suhr RL based recording- and reamp rig, so these trademark Allmans broken cleans come naturally, even with 100 Watters.
imho, that's the essential part of the recipe, to get in the ballpark - not the exact type of Marshall or Fender they used.
power amp saturation and HH guitar with pots rolled back a little. :idea
somebody mentioned Dickey's later Classic 50 rig - same idea, just scaled down a little for smaller stages. Never mind the EL84s.

for Dickey's Warren era tones, turn up the (1959) preamp one more notch, the rest is the same.
bonus : add a Klon(e) with a bit of grit (set up for OD, not as clean boost), and you can get a nice Warren SLO vibe going. Mind you, this is still 80% amp drive, far from the dubious "OD > clean pedal platform" approach.
the beauty of the Klon(e) is that it virtually disappears in this role, it feels like your amp simply had more natural gain, while keeping its base tone intact. :cool:

ymmv, it's just what works for me,
Rhino
Interesting, my main amp is a Reeves Custom 50, which is a take on your DR 504. I was experimenting yesterday with a Kingsley Constable in the Return of the Fx loop, bypassing the amps tone stack. The Constable is a damn good recreation of a vintage Marshall preamp. I got pretty close with my 335 on the rhythm parts and part of the leads, but you are right about needing volume, and the amps natural breakup to achieve that bell like tone cutting through when he is playing in the higher registers.

Unfortunately, I was unable to hit that, as the volume was getting a bit out of hand...LOL...I am using a Tumnus Deluxe for the OD as well as the natural drive in the Constable, but again, it got pretty loud at one point. I am sure I could have gotten there if I were say, on a stage or in a larger room/studio. :)
 

ProfRhino

Member
Messages
7,387
Interesting, my main amp is a Reeves Custom 50, which is a take on your DR 504. I was experimenting yesterday with a Kingsley Constable in the Return of the Fx loop, bypassing the amps tone stack. The Constable is a damn good recreation of a vintage Marshall preamp. I got pretty close with my 335 on the rhythm parts and part of the leads, but you are right about needing volume, and the amps natural breakup to achieve that bell like tone cutting through when he is playing in the higher registers.

Unfortunately, I was unable to hit that, as the volume was getting a bit out of hand...LOL...I am using a Tumnus Deluxe for the OD as well as the natural drive in the Constable, but again, it got pretty loud at one point. I am sure I could have gotten there if I were say, on a stage or in a larger room/studio. :)
the Reeves sounds perfectly fine to me for these things ! :aok
but if you ever get the chance to try a PS2 with it (for an all-in-one turnkey solution), I bet(ts) you would get by without any pedal for vintage Dickey, at your reasonable volume of choice !
see my previous post about his newer tones, substitute your current pedals for the Klon(e) I mentioned.

ymmv, trying is part of the fun ! :dude
lol,
Rhino
 

sonicmessiah

Member
Messages
325
Another amp not mentioned in this thread is a Top Hat Emplexador 50 that I almost bought at Guitar Center Unfortunately I was in the middle of another amp purchase at the time . I thought the top hat had a good Allman Bros sound . Wondering if any Top Hat owners agree.

i think the Emplexdor is based on a '68 circuit, so yeah. i have a strat, not a les paul, so i can't say for sure.
 

snow and steel

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,930
That was great! Thanks for posting. My me asking what gear was used? :aok
Sure, no problem.

I play the lead fills throughout and the first solo, Sonny plays solo 2, and then we both play interweaving our lines around each other, with the final lines played by me. If you listen closely you can hear the slight EQ difference between our tones - his is a a little smoother and mine has a bit more bite.

Sonny is playing a stock Gibson Les Paul Jr. I don't remember the exact vintage but its not a recent one at all. Strung with elixers 10's. He's running one of our Vintage Spec Mythical Overdrives to push his Stephens Plexi. His is a 20 watt hand wired plexi with the preamp built like of a 50watt bass head [which contributes a lot to the smoother tone] [2X6V6s power section]. His cabinet is a 2x12 open back loaded with a pair of 20 watt speakers, though I can't remember exactly which. I can ask if you really want to know.

I'm using a Gibson '61 Reissue SG, with a seymour duncan Jazz in the neck and a '59 in the bridge. Strung with NYXL's 10-56. It's going through the Vintage Spec Mythical Overdrive [you can plainly hear when I kick the MO on goin into the solo], into a phase 95 [set for the phase 45 sound, on the whole time], into my Stephens plexi. Mine is a 20 watt hand wired plexi with the pre-amp built like a 100 watt super lead [2x6V6S power section]. I use a 2x12 open back loaded with English 25 watt greenbacks.

There's really not much to the set up, honestly. We both use the VSMO's I worked up with Ken @Rimrock to push the front end of the amps a little, but really the secret to the tone is in having Gibsons pushing plexi's out of open back cabs like the brothers did. Everything else is in knowing how to use the pickup selector, volume and tone knobs, and playing the right notes :)
 

joebloggs13

Member
Messages
2,417
Sure, no problem.

I play the lead fills throughout and the first solo, Sonny plays solo 2, and then we both play interweaving our lines around each other, with the final lines played by me. If you listen closely you can hear the slight EQ difference between our tones - his is a a little smoother and mine has a bit more bite.

Sonny is playing a stock Gibson Les Paul Jr. I don't remember the exact vintage but its not a recent one at all. Strung with elixers 10's. He's running one of our Vintage Spec Mythical Overdrives to push his Stephens Plexi. His is a 20 watt hand wired plexi with the preamp built like of a 50watt bass head [which contributes a lot to the smoother tone] [2X6V6s power section]. His cabinet is a 2x12 open back loaded with a pair of 20 watt speakers, though I can't remember exactly which. I can ask if you really want to know.

I'm using a Gibson '61 Reissue SG, with a seymour duncan Jazz in the neck and a '59 in the bridge. Strung with NYXL's 10-56. It's going through the Vintage Spec Mythical Overdrive [you can plainly hear when I kick the MO on goin into the solo], into a phase 95 [set for the phase 45 sound, on the whole time], into my Stephens plexi. Mine is a 20 watt hand wired plexi with the pre-amp built like a 100 watt super lead [2x6V6S power section]. I use a 2x12 open back loaded with English 25 watt greenbacks.

There's really not much to the set up, honestly. We both use the VSMO's I worked up with Ken @Rimrock to push the front end of the amps a little, but really the secret to the tone is in having Gibsons pushing plexi's out of open back cabs like the brothers did. Everything else is in knowing how to use the pickup selector, volume and tone knobs, and playing the right notes :)
That's great info...thanks...I kind of figured it was a HB type into a Marshall type....you guys really nailed the tone tho, just like The Brothers. Duane's had a slightly smoother tone, while Dickey's was brighter, with a bit more bite. The one thing that did surprise me was the Phase 95, set to 45 mode. I own one, and never would have thought to use it in that application. Great stuff! Those amps sounds glorious. Your playing really captures the spirit of The Brothers. The singing was fantastic as well. Would love to have been there. :beer
 

snow and steel

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,930
That's great info...thanks...I kind of figured it was a HB type into a Marshall type....you guys really nailed the tone tho, just like The Brothers. Duane's had a slightly smoother tone, while Dickey's was brighter, with a bit more bite. The one thing that did surprise me was the Phase 95, set to 45 mode. I own one, and never would have thought to use it in that application. Great stuff! Those amps sounds glorious. Your playing really captures the spirit of The Brothers. The singing was fantastic as well. Would love to have been there. :beer
Thank you very much for the kind words, it's very nice to hear. :)
 

modernp

Member
Messages
2,042
Hi friends,

I’ve got some great amps at home....a 65 Bassman, 65 Deluxe, and a 66 Pro Reverb. But I want to get a non Fender amp for a rockin sound. I love the Allman Bros, and I’m not a high gain player. I want something with an EL34 power section to do this.

Im imagining I’ll get a lot of “Marshall” answers to this question. But I can’t carry a big vintage Marshall head and a 4x12 to gigs, and I certainly can’t record at a reasonable volume with them at home.

So, my question is which amp will get me there with a manageable footprint and weight, and record well at non ear splitting volumes? I’m open to combo amps, as well as a head and 1x12 or 2x10 cabinet, or something like that.

open to vintage, new, or boutique. Please also recommend speakers. I want good quality, and great tone. Under $3K all in please, less if possible.

thanks.
Try a peavey classic 50
 

No_Stairway

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,014
Try a Dr Z Carmen Ghia, put a Ethos TWE-1 in front of it and enjoy.

I actually was running a CG with a Celestion Blue and using a Keeley Oxblood Ge with the TWE-1 to get into ABB / Warren Haynes tones. The magic could just be in that Ethos pedal, I need to try it through my PRRI
 

ProfRhino

Member
Messages
7,387
Has EL84's, not EL34's. It has a unique sound on its own, but not ABB. Not without some major pedal wizardry. But then, we'd be talking about any Fender amp too.
true, but Dickey sounded just like Dickey with his pair of Classics. :dunno
the Classic 50 doesn't have a Vox cathode biased power stage, it's 4x EL84 in AB, voiced about halfway between Tweed and Marshall.
an extremely underrated amp, having just the right volume to hang with a loud drummer and getting warm power tube saturation.
I played my ancient Tweed 212 on many hundreds of mostly loud gigs, basically EC Strat straight in, 95% cranked clean channel, and I could get into the Allmans ballpark all day long.
sure, LP > Plexi is the real deal, but most of our repertoire was 90s country rock back then (we merely did a handful of Allmans covers, not least as I was the only electric guitar), so this rig made a lot of sense and was easy enough to handle.

ymmv,
Rhino
 




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