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Whis is louder-tubes or transistors?

Discussion in 'Amps/Cabs Tech Corner: Amplifier, Cab & Speakers' started by Watsonica, Sep 29, 2006.

  1. Watsonica

    Watsonica Member

    Messages:
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    May 22, 2006
    I couldn't edit the header but naturally I meant "which" not "whis" (lol). I'm currently playing through a Marshall VS8040 using a Boss GT-8 and am actually quite pleased with the set-up. It has been well over 20 years since I stopped playing through "all-tube" amps (mostly Fenders) And I couldn't help but wonder (because I can't remember) if my old Fender Deluxe (22 watts) was as loud as my 40 watt valvestate.

    I've seen incredible prices on "all tube" amps from various makers with wattages ranging from 15 to 18 watts and it has really made me wonder about the real differences in volume as compared to their transistor powered counter parts.

    Actually (if it please the forum) I also have another question if you would be so kind as to help.

    The speaker in my VS is a celestion G12-40 @4ohms (T4295/14), and as I stated, I'm happy with my sound, but is there a speaker that I can replace it with that will give me more volume and headroom ?

    (I'm not using the VS for Distortions, just using it to amplify the GT-8 and really like the sound)

    I've often wondered about the possiblity of adding an ext. speaker outlet (this model doen't have one) but I don't know what I'd run into on that, feasibility wise or speaker(s).

    I've toured many forums over the year reading and searching for the answers to these questions but no luck, so I figured I'd stop reading and just ask the Gurus.
    Thank you so much.
     
  2. mc5nrg

    mc5nrg Supporting Member

    Messages:
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    Mar 15, 2004
    Location:
    DC, Philly, Asquared, Upper Michigan
    Generally solid state amps have a minimum impedance value that the amp wants to see or drive and below which the amp will fry.Most likely the minimum for your Valvestate head is 4 ohms,thus no extension speaker jack. A more efficient speaker would give you more volume...can't really comment on just what would qualify.

    Since you are essentially using the head as a clean power amp, a more powerful solidstate amp would give you more volume.

    The clipping characteristics of tube amps are often credited with their perceived "more sound per stated watt" reputation.When SS amps clip they often sound harsh and unmusical unlike tube amps. Also wattage ratings vary depending on the percent of harmonic distortion allowed when measured and tube amps often put out much more than rated power when really cranked.

    Now time for the pros to chime in.
     
  3. Watsonica

    Watsonica Member

    Messages:
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    May 22, 2006
    Thank you, I thought that was a very professional reply btw. So I'm guessing that a 22w Fender Deluxe Reverb will seem louder than 40w(rms) VS Marshall?
     
  4. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

    Messages:
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    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Location:
    Tejas
    I properly working and "tuned" Deluxe Reverb amp can keep up with
    a Super Reverb, a Marshall or even one of those 130 watt Music Man
    amps. Mine do it all the time.

    When Deana Carter came through here a few years back,
    her rhythm guys Super fell off the truck. I did a late night
    repair for them and to keep the gig,they used my Deluxe Reverb.
    When I finished his amp and returned later that night,
    he was amazed that my Deluxe Reverb
    sounded louder and better than his Super.

    We were both happy campers. :dude
     
  5. Watsonica

    Watsonica Member

    Messages:
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    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    I love beer,
    much good sex,
    and Liberacie was as talented as they come. (oh, I'm female btw)

    Great story, I loved that. I'm guessing the speaker in the Deluxe was original? Would changing the speaker in my Marshall give me similar results?
     
  6. mbratch

    mbratch Member

    Messages:
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    Nov 3, 2003
    Location:
    Webster, NY
    When I hold each up to my ear independently, tubes don't seem noticably louder to me than transistors.

    But when dropped on a ceramic tile floor, a tube is much louder than a transistor.

    Sorry.... it's 2:49AM.... and I'm not feeling well.... ;)
     
  7. Watsonica

    Watsonica Member

    Messages:
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    Joined:
    May 22, 2006

    Thank you, but I still don't know what replacement (speaker) I could choose to make my Marshall a bit louder without drastically changing the overall sound (tone).

    "History doesn't necessarilly repeat it'self, but it has been known to stutter."-me.

    To the soundman at soundcheck "Give me more than I want then turn it back just a bit."-me.
     
  8. Boogs

    Boogs Member

    Messages:
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    Aug 3, 2004
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I would look at a Weber, since they can give you something 4 ohm...anything 8 ohm will be robbing you of watts using solid state. The Weber Cali ceramic is loud and neutral (the Michigan is supposed to be too, but I don't have that one).
     
  9. vibroverbus

    vibroverbus Member

    Messages:
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    Sep 27, 2006
    Location:
    Shanghai & Boston
    Here's an option: have a switching external speaker jack installed such that when you plug into it, the internal speaker is cut out. then have a cab put together with 2x8ohm Celestion G12's (or anything else you decide to try) in parallel to reflect a 4ohm load. then you can keep using it standalone/combo-style for small gigs/jamming/rehersal/etc. but crank to the external cabinet when you need it. it's unavoidable that the sound won't change a little bit just from the new cabinet but that should get you close if you really don't want to change your setup.

    re: speakers, myguess is the current G12T-75 might be close to what you have in there. Celestion has a neodymium magnet G12 "Century" that is super high efficiency so it would get you considerably more volume. I'm using neo eminence speakers in a cab now and they are loud as hell (and as a bonus, pretty light to carry around too...)

    OR... if you have the budget, find yourself an 8100 Valvestate and cabinet... personally we had a Valvestate in an old band I was in and I never thought it was anything too outstanding (we ended up never using it - we had an old red-knob fender that we actually liked better and it was no great shakes either) so I wouldn't be putting money into one, but it is an option if you really don't want to change what you've got but want more volume...
     
  10. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

    Messages:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Location:
    Tejas
    I understand.

    When I drop one of my NOS GECs at 2:49 am,
    I don't feel well either. :jo


    Watsonica, you have to remember, it is the results of
    too much beer, good sex and liberace wars that isn't tolerated here.
    I enjoy the first two just as anyone would.

    No, the DR speaker was not original.
    The circuit was basically stock though
    some minor improvements were made.
    I have a video clip or two up on myspace
    if you'd care to listen. They are for
    the sound though, not the video.

    Glad to see a female btw around here. What
    does btw mean? between the wings?

    Oh you mean you want to KEEP the valvestate?

    In that case I would definitely strive for a much
    less efficient speaker and use it with an attenuator.

    Hope that helps.

    Good luck and let us know what you choose to do.
     
  11. mbratch

    mbratch Member

    Messages:
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    Nov 3, 2003
    Location:
    Webster, NY
    I understand. I was just answering the "Which is louder-tubes or transistors?" question. ;)

    Send a note to Ted Weber (www.tedweber.com) tell him what kind of speaker you have and what your goals are. He'll probably have at least one good suggestion.
     

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