Who Gigs with a modeler and only uses the PA?

gearo999

Member
Messages
514
It seems if you dial-in your sound using the bands PA and have monitors/in-ears, no more backline. No point of trying to find FRFRs or other amps, right? Just headphones or monitors for home practice.
 

Bigjay

Member
Messages
67
" and have monitors/in-ears"
Having your own in-ears is imo not the same as "only using the PA".

Even when feeding the PA straight with my helix, i still have my amp to serve as a glorified monitor in case the local one aren't good.

PS: i do also dial-in my sound through the band PA.
 

bdrepko

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,967
I did this for many years. No IEM, just a wedge monitor I use to also monitor the rest of the band.
 

DigitalTube

Member
Messages
1,322
It seems if you dial-in your sound using the bands PA and have monitors/in-ears, no more backline. No point of trying to find FRFRs or other amps, right? Just headphones or monitors for home practice.
Have been doing that for a very long time.. it’s important to have a good set of In Ears, custom fit is really worth it..
 

IHeartEL34s

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
260
It's important to have your own source of monitoring (either IEM or a small personal powered monitor), without relying solely on the venue's mix/PA. I have played some crummy dives, where they have no stage monitors and thus no way to hear myself.

Also just recently played 2 venues where the guitars were not mic'd and my cab was about 8 feet to my right. Could barely hear it. Was running my Axe III > Powerstation > Cab. I didn't have my IEM or my K12 with me because I didn't think I'd need it. Lesson learned
 

PBGas

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,576
It all depends upon if there are monitors at the venue. If there is one there, then I just need to bring my modeller with me. If there isn't anything, then I bring either a cab with me or my powered monitor.
 

Rob Eadgbe

Member
Messages
521
I haven't relied on anything other than IEMs when gigging for the last two and a half years when I finally broke down and bought in ears. I do bring either a Powercab Plus or a Headrush 108 for feedback and for anybody that doesn't have in ears. It's very empowering pointing at the volume knob of the Powercab and telling your singer "set it at where ever you want".
 
Messages
100
It seems if you dial-in your sound using the bands PA and have monitors/in-ears, no more backline. No point of trying to find FRFRs or other amps, right? Just headphones or monitors for home practice.
I have before and don't see any disadvantage of it over using an amp. I think it all depends on what the player is comfortable with, I also think it speaks volumes to how mature and developed a musician is.

Careful though, stating such things can trigger the old lonely men here.
 

Alex Kenivel

Member
Messages
2,918
An FRFR is just a PA system in a box. Same as an active wedge. Flat enough but not really flat.

I dial in at home on my studio monitors treated with room correction EQ and double check on a wedge monitor in a corner for some worst-case bass boost testing. It's never the same but it's close enough in most cases.

I gig with just my IEMs and the venue takes care of the rest. Most of the time there are a few wedges on stage for feels and feedback. If providing our own PA, my IEM mixer is flexible and acts as FoH mixer as well, and I'm bringing a small open back guitar cab for stage fill. My other band members provide the speakers atm.

I still love playing through a cab.
 
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smellytele

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
834
For some gigs, yes. I have a weekly gig that all I bring is my guitar and FM3. I prefer to use a power amp and cab, but I literally go straight to the gig from work and I only have about ten minutes to set up. I dig the quick "in and out." Which is what she said. (never gets old)
 

GtarLover

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
427
I’ve been doing this almost exclusively for the last few years. Using molded IEM and no cabs or monitors. A few times I have hooked up a small power amp and ran into a cab for stage volume, yet not for me, rather for the front row(s) if there was an absence of front throw monitoring.
Anyway, I’m very happy with this setup. Absolutely consistent night after night.

I’m running my Axe III straight to our X32 rack, which feeds the bands in-ears (all controlled by our individual iPads) and then a split to any FOH we play. That way the FOH has complete fader control and it doesn’t effect the bands IEM. Perfect for everyone.

For the vast bulk of our shows there is no need for cabs on stage.
 

Pedro58

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,450
I play live, using a modeler, into one of two PA's. One is JBL stuff, run by a QSC Touchmix. The other is EV stuff, same QSC board. My monitors are JBL or EV. Monitors point right at my face and have vocals, drums, guitars. I have a QSC CP8 monitor at home that I audition sounds with. The JBL rig is warmer. The EV, brighter.

Headphones are just wrong, to my ears, for hearing your rig outside of careful studio monitoring or casual noodling. They have their place, but cans do me little good when I'm getting ready to gig.
 

dan5150

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
185
As many others have already said. Helix - XR18 Mixer - Carvin IEM for monitors - Powered PA cabs for FOH. (Either ours or the clubs). Works great. Load in and out is quick and light!
 

DunedinDragon

Member
Messages
1,502
I finally adopted a direct to mixer and ampless stage about three years ago and can't imagine going back to how I used to do things. Everyone is direct to the mixer (QSC TM30) with a combination of Yamaha DXR12 and QSC K10.3 monitors with customized stage mixes. It still provides the on stage energy but with the precision of a studio rather than the slop of traditional stage amp setups. Not to mention the ease of load in, setup, tear down and load out. I only wish I could have done this 20 or 30 years ago.
 

Phil_Mayger

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
289
I have two scenarios that cover 100% of the gigs we do as a band:

1 - Our gig with our (actually my) PA. QSC CP8 on the floor in front of me, GT-1000 direct into the PA (XR18). I control my own monitor mix that comes back from the mixer into the CP8. Rest of the band do the same.

2 - Someone else's PA (multiband shows, at a venue, or a support slot). GT-1000 direct into the PA, and the CP8 plugged direct into the other output on the GT-1000. I've replaced the knob that controls the level of this output with one that's 35mm in diameter so I can adjust it with my foot if I need to. Doing it this way means I'm never at the mercy of an unknown sound guy or monitoring solution - I've always got more "me" available. Has worked perfectly for me every single gig. I also have a Laney LFR-112 but I've never needed to use it at a gig - and I much prefer the CP8.

The other guitarist and the bassist do pretty much the same as me.
 

GenoBluzGtr

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
3,418
I've been doing this now for almost 2 years. Helix. XLR out to the PA. 1/4" out to a Wedge Monitor (QSC K10) in front of me. My outputs are split so that the XLR out bypasses the Helix's volume control (FOH gets my sound and I can't adjust it). PA back to my monitor into Channel A of the K10, and my 1/4" out into Channel B. I get full band mix from the Mixer and I get my own sound where I can adjust the volume from the Helix. Works fantastic.

I show up with my Helix, an XLR cable, a 1/4" instrument cable, power cord, my guitar, wireless unit. Less than 25 lbs total. Backpack / Gig Bag, cable bag. Smallest footprint on stage that I could possibly have. My sound is the same if we're outdoors and blasting or in a restaurant at volumes where I can still hear my ambient string rattle.

Tips:

- Create your presets using the same monitor you plan to use on stage. At GIG VOLUME!
- Put an EQ block and a Gain Block at the end of your preset. You can tweak tone and volume/gain this way for each venue if needed. I have needed this ONLY once where we had to play at an extremely low volume and I need a touch more low-end.
- remember that if you turn down YOUR output (1/4" in my case) using the big Helix Volume knob, it slightly changes the gain structure (things are not quite as clean/have less headroom) as what is coming out of the XLR out to the PA. I try to keep it close to matched up and just simply never adjust my volume, but for times when I need a bit more, I like setting my volume at 3/4 level and this gives me some room to plus myself up in my monitor if needed. I can also adjust the monitor volume on channel b, from the wedge if needed.
 
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MikeMcK

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,773
My duo/trio rig is a Helix LT straight to the board. If it's a duo I can usually go without a monitor on small gigs, but if I need one it's IEMs.

But the Helix is also my B rig on band gigs, and the one time I had to use it that way it was perfect. I was subbing with a band that had horns, multiple singers, etc. in a place that has a weird house sound setup... flying wedges (monitors hung from the ceiling) and the soundperson's station is upstairs at the back of the room (for locals, this was Bar A).

They also insist on wheeling in and setting up their own 12U rack for in-ear transmitters, even with a house system, which are used by some but not all of the band. In other words, they're a soundperson's nightmare.

My amp took a dump, and when one of the singers went on-mic to tell the soundman I needed to switch rigs really quick, I could see the "oh, crap" look on his face. But by the time he'd made his way to the stage, I'd pulled the XLR from the mic on my amp, set up the LT and had it up & running. He only had to put it into the wedges and we were back on. He later said it was the most hassle-free part of the night. Sounded great, too.
 

MKB

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,307
I do the majority of my gigs like this, direct to PA and IEMs. It is a perfectly fine way of doing it, however IMHO it is critical you have your own individual monitor mix (not usually a problem these days with all the auxes on modern digital mixers). If your mix is the same as the singer or keys, you will never get a decent mix. Just bet on it. Recording is usually a pain like this as phones in the studio often share the same mix and the guitarist never has enough guitar to play well.
It's important to have your own source of monitoring (either IEM or a small personal powered monitor), without relying solely on the venue's mix/PA. I have played some crummy dives, where they have no stage monitors and thus no way to hear myself.

Also just recently played 2 venues where the guitars were not mic'd and my cab was about 8 feet to my right. Could barely hear it. Was running my Axe III > Powerstation > Cab. I didn't have my IEM or my K12 with me because I didn't think I'd need it. Lesson learned
This is excellent advice, I always tote a powered FRFR or simple wedge cab with a V30 or Greenback, plus a small amp like a PS170 for situations like this. I actually had to use it the majority of the time when playing festivals with house PA. I found if I had the wedge for guitar, I could do without IEMs or even a vocals wedge in many cases. And there have been times when other musicians in the group would complain that they couldn't hear enough guitar and they made me crank the wedge even more.

Buy a small powered FRFR and don't leave home without it.
 

ragingplatypi

Member
Messages
739
I made the switch to IEM recently and haven’t turned on my amp since. I thought about selling it to get some new gear, but it just felt wrong.
Gotta say, hearing the story about the amp being far away brought back all kinds of “war story” memories of nightmarish sound. I’m so grateful for how spoiled we are, but also feel like those lessons were important.
 




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