• New Sponsor: ShipNerd, Ship Your Gear with Us... for less! Click Here.
  • On Thursday, January 20, 2022, starting at 7 pm EST, We will take the forum offline to do the necessary upgrades. Estimates are a possible 3-hour total downtime to complete the process. So mark your calendar to play your guitar.

Why aren't more manufacturers using Creambacks in their cabs?

Badside

Member
Messages
1,553
I love me a Greenback quad box, but I rarely get the occasion or even excuse to carry a 412 anymore. I've tried GBs in 1x12 and 2x12, they just don't do their thing as well.

But the G12M Creamback? That is one nice speaker. A 2x12 can now take a 100W head, you're not losing low-end compared to a 4X12 with 25W GBs, and the high end is more controlled than most other smaller cabs.

Yet, all I could find while shopping for a 2x12 (short of ordering from Avatar or such, but I'm in Canada and shipping is expensive) was a legion of V30 cabs, or the 5150iii cab with the G12H30 speakers. All of those can be nice, but I'd rather something with a looser low-end and a lower sensitivity.

Then Fender releases the EL34 version of the 50w 5150iii head with a new cab... what's in the new cab you ask? G12M Heritage... 20W Greenbacks. 40W of power handling for a pair of EL34s... Why couldn't they just go with Creambacks? Would give a more similar tone to their 4X12 with Heritage speakers, and handle any of their heads power wise. In smaller boxes, the Heritage can be very bright and very "light" on the low-end. I know, I tried.
 

Sirloin

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
16,761
Because they don't sound the same as Greenbacks. Oh and FYI, the Heritage Greenbacks are really 25 watts just like the Chinese reissue. Celestion just did the 20 watt label thing to differentiate and be more historically accurate. They can handle a 50 watt head just fine.
 

Seth L

Senior Member
Messages
24,303
They sound better than Greenbacks. It's got to be because they're more expensive.
 

muchXS

Member
Messages
1,215
Because Eminence doesn't make them.

Because they're expensive.

Because everyone changes the OEM speakers, anyway.
 

reaiken

Member
Messages
1,933
A while back, I did a direct comparison between the Greenback, Creamback 65, Creamback 75, and Vintage 30 (and a bunch of other speakers) in identical 1x12 ported cabs, all on a switch to be able to immediately change between them.

To my ears, and everyone else in the shop who listened, this is the ranking, in terms of best/most usable tone, with a Marshally amp:

(1) Greenback - the best overall tone by far. Not an ounce of harshness in it.
(2) Vintage 30 - never thought I'd say this about V30s, but it sounded quite good. Obviously different than the greenback and the creambacks, but would cut real well in a band mix.
(3) Creamback 65 - a nice, usable tone, but a bit dull on the high end compared to the Greenback and Vintage 30. I'd like to hear four of them in a 4x12 for a proper comparison.
(4) Creamback 75 - hands down, one of the worst speakers I have ever heard in my life. Thin, harsh, and buzzy with overdrive. I think they must have shipped me a bad one, because I can't imagine anyone liking the one I got. It didn't seem to be blown, it was brand new. I'd like to try another just to see if mine was broken, but I don't want to waste another $170.

Caveat: cabinets and configuration make huge differences in tone, so YMMV.
 
Messages
7,010
I have the feeling that CBs are still seen as a compromise between the G12M/H veggie bottoms and a speaker like the G12-65, both with their own pedigree. Perhaps the CB is just too recent to warrant good sales figures as well. And Celestion was quite late with a higher rated GB style driver so some may think of it as a me-to kind of speaker.

Then with so many brands and models of speakers on the market today the designers of amps really have their job with finding matching speakers cut out for them.
 

Seth L

Senior Member
Messages
24,303
I have the feeling that CBs are still seen as a compromise between the G12M/H veggie bottoms and a speaker like the G12-65, both with their own pedigree. Perhaps the CB is just too recent to warrant good sales figures as well. And Celestion was quite late with a higher rated GB style driver so some may think of it as a me-to kind of speaker.

Then with so many brands and models of speakers on the market today the designers of amps really have their job with finding matching speakers cut out for them.
I gave my brother an old Music Man amp I had and he replaced the speaker with a Creamback M. I was blown away. That amp never sounded so good, and that was right out of the box. I replaced the g12h-30's in my Orange amps with the CB's and loved it and will not be changing them back. My point is that the sound alone made me a fan. No hype, no BS. I just loved the sound.
 
Messages
7,010
I gave my brother an old Music Man amp I had and he replaced the speaker with a Creamback M. I was blown away. That amp never sounded so good, and that was right out of the box. I replaced the g12h-30's in my Orange amps with the CB's and loved it and will not be changing them back. My point is that the sound alone made me a fan. No hype, no BS. I just loved the sound.
Yes, and I'm sure they are. Was just hypothesising, really.
 

MHG

Member
Messages
6,335
The Creamback 65 is a phenomenal speaker! It sounds absolutely amazing with the Carr Mercury and Lincoln. This is the stock speaker for both amps. A lot of people make the mistake of judging a speaker after trying it with just one or two amps. Every speaker is extremely amp dependant and vice versa. I find these speakers to be especially so. There were definitely a few amps, including a Germino Club 40, that I didn't love paired with the Creambacks and preferred Greenbacks. These speakers shouldn't be considered a drop-in replacement for Greenbacks, as they don't always excel with the same amps..........which makes a direct comparison kind of difficult.

One member stated that they felt the highs were dull. My experience is the complete opposite. Paired with my Carrs, the highs are super clear, lively, articulate, and chimey, and exhibit an almost Alnico-like sweetness and compression. Nothing remotely dull about it. It simply comes down to what type of amp is being used
 
Last edited:

Tone Meister

Member
Messages
3,266
A while back, I did a direct comparison between the Greenback, Creamback 65, Creamback 75, and Vintage 30 (and a bunch of other speakers) ...

(4) Creamback 75 - hands down, one of the worst speakers I have ever heard in my life. Thin, harsh, and buzzy with overdrive. I think they must have shipped me a bad one, because I can't imagine anyone liking the one I got. It didn't seem to be blown, it was brand new. I'd like to try another just to see if mine was broken, but I don't want to waste another $170.
Wow! Didn't see that coming. You just saved ME $170 unless you indeed had a broken H75 and post something to that effect here. I had planned to try a mix of M65/H75 Creambacks in a 2x12 cab for a 100-watt Marshally amp. Right now that cab has two Creamback 65s, but it's a tad dark and thick for my tastes.

I wonder if the coupling effect from a pair or quad would mitigate the problem you had with the performance with overdrive?
 

Stormin

Tele's and Plexis
Messages
4,169
Wow! Didn't see that coming. You just saved ME $170 unless you indeed had a broken H75 and post something to that effect here. I had planned to try a mix of M65/H75 Creambacks in a 2x12 cab for a 100-watt Marshally amp. Right now that cab has two Creamback 65s, but it's a tad dark and thick for my tastes.

I wonder if the coupling effect from a pair or quad would mitigate the problem you had with the performance with overdrive?
I'm not sure where in NC you are, but I love the Creamback M+H pair with my JTM4s. I run them in an openback Matchless ESD and I couldn't be happier. I'm in the Raleigh area if you ever wanna check them out.
 

reaiken

Member
Messages
1,933
Wow! Didn't see that coming. You just saved ME $170 unless you indeed had a broken H75 and post something to that effect here. I had planned to try a mix of M65/H75 Creambacks in a 2x12 cab for a 100-watt Marshally amp. Right now that cab has two Creamback 65s, but it's a tad dark and thick for my tastes.

I wonder if the coupling effect from a pair or quad would mitigate the problem you had with the performance with overdrive?
It sounds like you came to the same conclusion as I did on the Creamback 65s.

I hate to deter anyone from buying a speaker, but my Creamback 75 was so bad, I can't in good faith recommend it to anyone. I'm afraid to even sell it, for fear that someone else will get stuck with it, so I'm just out $170. I suppose I should have returned it, but I had it awhile before I got around to testing it, so I was probably outside the window of return. When I get some time, I may pull it out again and see if I can feel cone rubbing or anything.

The odd thing is, it sounded okay on clean tones, but distorted tones were horrendously thin and buzzy. I've read posts from other people who love them, so don't let my statistically poor sample of one keep you from trying them.
 

mlj_gear

Member
Messages
3,250
The G12M-65 Creamback is a very muddy speaker to my ears. I guess it might be good if you really want to take high end and brightness off, but personally I'm glad it doesn't come stock in too many amps.
 
Last edited:

buddy7168

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,138
I’m a big fan of the g12m Creambacks and g12ms in general. My Runt 20 combo and 112 extension came with them stock and they sound great with that amp. They’re really flexible while retaining the g12m character. I also have them in a Marshall 4x12 that I use with a ‘77 2203. I’ve tried a bunch of different g12m variants and other speakers with that amp and to me the g12m Creambacks work the best.

I will agree that they don’t sound just like the old ones or the reissues/heritage, but they have a similar vibe and are a cool take on the g12m tone.
 

kustombob

Member
Messages
417
Speaker Cab design and build has almost as much to do as the speakers used. Open back and closed also. I love Greenbacks myself with Marshall power. Also Speaker Warehouse Green Beret's are quite good.
 




Trending Topics

Top Bottom