Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Billy Moss, Dec 13, 2015.
All day long !
Sound i.e. tone is all based on individual tastes. For me... The "while not pristine" is what I was referring too. As you said, most people like a little gravel in their clean. I played a Les Paul Custom through a JCM 800 for years and never really liked the clean. I rolled back the volume all the time. At a decent stage volume the clean always had some gravel in it no matter what pups I used. & Back then... at a decent stage volume (a volume I needed to play medium to large venues) as stated... I couldn't find an amp that had a decent distortion that also had a decent clean that wasn't overtly hard to use live..
Back then I always wanted that Fender 'true" clean.
The direction I'm moved into ... Emulating a lot of vintage tones but with a modern twist. Sort of "old school meets new school" As a working musician I was kinda forced to move into this direction anyway. So I use old and new pedals in my rig. A single channel amp possessing a high head room works best for me. I also moved away from amp based distortion in favor of Fuzz pedals.. I like the unique expressive nature of Fuzz over all other types of gain distortion. I've found I have a lot more options to create a unique fuzz/distortion by either daisy chaining, swapping the order... etc.. thus making a "SOUND" unique to me.
Also... IMO a lot of cascading high gain distortion tones from Marshall, Friedman, Mesa etc have been played out.. It's like down tuning and growling into a mic... These days it's just "White Noise".
post up your Soldano 100 watt amp with your handle "Guiness lad" and today's date on a piece of paper and tape it to the front for us to see...
I went the other way. Pedals just didn't sound as good and I've had some good ones. However, I do still sometimes use an OD as a clean boost for the dirty and clean channel on my Rectoverb 25. Different tools.
I agree on the rhythm /lead things. .....I can make pedals into clean amp work for me if all I was doing is lead, but for a dirty rythm a pedal has always sounded/felt wrong.
I got rid of my multi channel amp to get a different multi channel amp to sit next to my two single channel amps and pile of pedals.
But I should have kept it because it's better to have 2 of each. I'll probably have to get another soon.
I would make do with what was provided.
You must have played some crappy channel switchers! ! I much prefer a simple,single channel amp set to crunch,roll back for clean, add pedal for solos / heavy but would take most channel switchers over a pedal into clean amp. And FYI most switchers have a MV and can be played at just about any volume.
I have yet to play a gig, or have spoken to any guitarist that routinely has to have a pristine clean that is louder than the dirty tone. If I absolutely had to have it I would change from a SG to a Strat or reach over and twist those amp knobs.
For me, pedals into a clean amp will always lose to any decent amps gain.
I play in a cover band that does all kinds of classic rock. We may play something like Take it Easy back to back with something like Dance The Night Away. I want to get that big, clean Take It Easy solo up there at the level of Dance The Night Away. There's simply NFW to do that from a single channel amp. My compromise of choice has been to use a great single channel vintage amp with several pedals in front. Someone else might prefer their channel switcher...I've tried this numerous times...didn't like...not my thing, but if that works for you, go for it.
Would I rather have a Twin Reverb for the Take It Easy and JCM800 for the Dance The Night Away? Hell yes...if all that mattered was getting the best tone. And I'd have an AC30, a tweed Deluxe, a tweed Bassman, some of my old Valcos and few other amps with me too...and a big PA and sound guy to get the vols in the FoH and monitors all synchronized and so on....but then...I guess that would make me Joe Perry or someone other than the poor shmuck who's playing in some tiny dump in Sunset Beach where I can't crank my 20 amp w/o getting stink eye from the guy behind the bar.
So how am I gonna get that big clean sound for Take it Easy and the big overdriven sound from one amp that's going to be easy to drag around and work within the stage size and volume constraints I have to work within? I'm not...so I'm going to have to find some compromise that work for me. What works best for me is a 20-40w amp that sounds great clean or overdriven, set it for the biggest clean I can get away with, usually with a bit of hair on it, then I'll use a good pedal or two to get the highly overdriven sound when needed. Works for me. Works for my bandmates. And has been working in the clubs for years and years. This solution - decent amp set for clean to mild breakup - with pedals in front is probably used by more actual working guitarists than any other solution out there. Doesn't work for you? Fine, do whatever works for you.
Can't right now, but can later. Here's a tip Govt Mule first 6 or 7 CDs at least, Gary Moore, Eric Clapton - from the cradle, and many other people.
Post your awesome stuff so we can all compare
Done the whole single channel thing with pedals but I've never been able to get a pedal sound like an amps overdrive despite using pedals like Kingsley minstrel etc. which I think is due to the needed interaction between the amps circuit and transformers. With that said, there is something special about single channel amps in breakup and winding the guitar volume down for different tones but I still prefer channel switching amps.
I'd take the $3,000 amp. I'd crank it to it's sweet spot, then ride my guitar volume knob for different sounds.Let's see a pedal try to get the nuances one can get from a cranked $3000 amp.
what this guy said. x100. only thing to add... is that when you're a bar musician in a place like nyc... you often have just a few minutes to set up in a very tight spot. heads/cabs won't work. multiple amps don't work. and in the short stretch where i did get my OD from an amp, i had to use the efx loop.. which means more cables to carry... more cables to set up... more cables at my feet on a crowded stage... and more that can go wrong... and it's not like you have a tech to fix problems when they pop up mid song. the fewer cables, the better.
What's funny is that what is being described above is Blackstars strong point. A Fender(ish) high headroom clean that can take pedals well, and then a Marshall(ish) gain channel in the same amp. FX loop, and all the other modern things. It can be a little dark/modern/compressed but tube changes resolve a lot of that. HT-40 is a very popular model sales wise for this reason. Well suited to someone gigging in a cover band etc.
Some complain the Blackstars gain channel sounds too much like a pedal, so what do some people do? Get a Twin Reverb and run gain pedals through it. So what's the difference? But I have a feeling though that this wouldn't pass the TGP tone test. Especially compared to a boutique pedal. We as guitarists are funny creatures in that we have all of these illogical rules, it's almost like music politics.
A Blackstars gain channel ***** all over any dirt pedal imo. If it has a pedal character, that's only when compared to the top tier of tube amps. Compared to a pedal that's delivering that much gain, I think it's no contest.
But I will say.. I like Wampler pedals and think that Brain Wampler is one guy who understands all this stuff very well and can make a very usable alternative. A lot of them sound bad but Wamper (and probably others) can make it work and sound quite good. It still usually has something pedally about the tone, but it's very usable.
The audience can't tell the difference, it's just whether or not it makes you happy or not. Going into a good poweramp and speaker cab always helps as well.
Don't waste your time. No need to keep the trolls well fed.
Look at the pick to your left... Three Custom Shop Telecaster currently playing through a ML HRD with a vk212. (I have plenty of other amps.. some good some bad...)
Few guys can afford anything like the amp you said... just wonder if you really have one.
Good stuff, I'm stoked that has worked for you and yes, I will do what works for me.
But please dont tell me its not possible to get that type of versatility from a crunching 2203 because all it takes is a single coil guitar, a humbucker guitar(or even better a HSS guitar) and a boost pedal, or if worse comes to worse, twist a few knobs and I can do anything you can do.
I recently saw the current Rose Tattoo lead guitarist (Dai Pritchard for you Aussies) and for the first set he used a HSS Strat into a JCM 800 2203. Biggest,fattest spanky neck pickup Strat tone you could imagine but when he switched to the bridge humbucker (and maybe hit a boost pedal....not sure)it was a killer hard rock lead tone. Turned down the guitar volume and had a rockin dirty rhythm that sat behind his vocals perfect.
People have been doing it for decades.....its no big secret.
You must be new around here.
My issue has always been that as soon as I step on an OD pedal, the wide open sound I strive for is gone.
I have yet to try a Klon type in my rig, but everything else...just takes away that width, depth and sparkle. Ofocurse, in many situations, reducing the width and dimension of a guitar can be good in a dense sounding mix....but....I like what I like.
I have gone the complete opposite direction; I now use a 2 channel amp for clean and light drive, and a single channel amp for medium gain. A quick dial turn (well, 2 quick dial turns), and I use both amps for really awesome mid-to-high gain tones.
I find that my pedals tend to lack something/detail compared to my amps. It's as though they're 2 dimensional and the amp is 3 dimensional. I have the following on my board:
- Menatone Red Snapper
- Fulltone Plim Soul
- Barber Direct Drive (original issue)
- Arc Klone
The best of the bunch has turned out to be the Plim Soul, it has a little more detail in its tone.
Tone King Comet - Rhythm Channel for just under break up with single coils, slightly broken up with humbuckers
Tone King Comet - Lead Channel for lighter dirt stuff; with single coils it will clean up with just lighter touch. MID BITE at 2 / VOLUME at 3
Tone King Majesty - Mid gain. VOLUME at 9-10.
Majesty + Comet Lead Channel - Turn Comet Lead Channel VOLUME to 7, MIDBITE to 8. The Comet is super thick in the mids, and a little lean in the bass and top end; the Majesty brings the more british gain structure, the top end, and a little bit of bottom end. These 2 amps compliment each other so well it's crazy. I got turned onto this sort of set up when I had a Splawn Quick Rod. I really had fun with the Quick Rod, but when I soloed with the Comet, it just sounded thicker. I tried them both together, but the gain difference was just too big. That Splawn was really fun to play, but my band just doesn't rock that much, and it was just sitting in my house; the Majesty is way better suited to what my band does, which is never mistaken for rock!
I've got every guitar and bass tone I could ever want in 6 amps.
I play them all straight up as specialty amps chosen specifically for what they do best.
I have one 2 channel switcher the rest 1 channel or 2 channels bridged for added mojo.