Why do I keep wanting a Klone?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by jlectka, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. monty

    monty Member

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    Definitely a case of FOMO, fueled by forums like this. Just look how this thread turned out.
    I've been guilty of it too, no worries- not every piece of great gear is for everybody.
     
  2. kramerxxx

    kramerxxx Member

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    My kids bought me a Silver Pony II kit for my birthday. I'd never played a Klone of any flavor before. I got interested in the Charge Pump idea and started looking at the Klones, which led me to the Centura. That led me to the HorseBreaker, but it was our of stock when I emailed Nik at Ceriatone so I asked for the kit from Build Your Own Clone.

    I really like how it sounds and it was $70.
     
  3. crosse79

    crosse79 Member

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    This.... or a Horse Breaker - Klon & Bluesbreaker in 1 pedal.
     
  4. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

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    No need to put so much cash on the line. NUX Horseman does it and has an added useful feature of a second drive sound available at the push of the footswitch. Not that it means much but for reference, I have a mid 90s Centaur and a KTR which are both just fine. I don't have room on the pedal boards for em. The NUX is on my gig boards.
     
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  5. JackVanPage

    JackVanPage Member

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    I have a similar problem with rebuying pedals. For me this happens when I listen with my eyes, listen to the pedal through other amps, don't play with other people enough, or don't play loud enough. When I start jamming with people again or getting to play louder I wonder why I have all this stuff and start selling things again haha
     
  6. Husky

    Husky Gold Supporting Member

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    I have an original gold one that everyone says is great. I'm doing my pedalboard now and if I need space it's the first to go, I have other pedals that fill that duty. Maybe I'll sell it to fund the rest of the board.
     
  7. SubApathy

    SubApathy Supporting Member

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    KAS...?
    Klon(e) Acquisition Syndrome
     
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  8. Joe Gore

    Joe Gore Member

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    Hey Klon heads — I'm in the process of doing a roundup review of various Klon clones for Premier Guitar. I can't disclose any results prior to publication next month, but I will share this: The Klon schematic is widely available and not subject to copyright. The original didn't employ any rare parts. (The double-ganged pot is unusual, but not hard to obtain. The op amp is as common as they come.) So it's pretty darn easy for any competent builder to make an exceedingly accurate clone. Switching from through-hole parts to surface-mount ones seems to have no meaningful effect on the results. I probably shouldn't say this, 'cause I still think about selling my 1995 Klon #309. But there are multiple ways to sound just like it without spending much.
     
  9. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    And yet I prefer the mids on my KTR. It's really no different than preferring some Analogman fuzz because of a particular transistor. It doesn't mean the part is "magic". It is just a preference.

    You can recreate schematics all you want. There are still going to be differences in sonic personality. Not necessarily for better or worse, just differences.

    The point for me with Bill is just that he put in the brute man hours trying parts over a couple years, that DIY passion, and that he truly chose the particular diodes used with much care, obsessive care that no big builder could afford to approach. It is home made, and there is no substitute for those man hours.

    That's really all it is. There is no magic. Only time sorting through and trying parts.

    I don't know why people have such a hard time with this simple situation and concept.

    But do I hear a difference with the KTR? Absolutely. This is ONLY PREFERENCE AND OPINION, nothing more. But mids are critical in my rig, and I prefer the mids inherent in those diodes. Another pedal may well have the same schematics, but I hear differences nonetheless.

    It is only opinion. But I do believe the months spent auditioning parts was not without value. I can tell he didn't just pick random parts that seemed reasonable.

    So while the hype is meaningless and silly IMHO, I do trust my ear.
     
  10. dojoe

    dojoe Member

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    I just got a Mythos Mjolnir that I'm liking a lot. :)
     
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  11. Joe Gore

    Joe Gore Member

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    Because it's not exactly true?

    All 1n34a Ge diodes sound about the same, aside from minor manufacturing tolerances. They're not rare — you can get them for about a dime each. There's no need to spend "brute man hours" sorting through them, and I doubt the original Klon creators did. (Though they probably did audition many different types of diodes before settling on that specific part.)

    You may be confusing the amount of time spent designing and finalizing a circuit, which can seem endless, and the process of populating circuit boards, which is generally rather cut and dried. While the occasional stompbox part does require unit-by-unit measurement (NOS Ge transistors, for example), nothing in the Klon circuit is finicky that way. Stick the right parts in the right places, and you'll match the sound.

    I can't swear to this, but my understanding it that the KTR uses the same circuit as the "horsie" (the model I've owned for 24 years), only substituting surface-mount components for the original through-hole parts. This shouldn't make much difference in the final result, given the Klon's bill of materials.

    It's easy to imagine you perceive dramatic differences when switching back and forth between multiple pedals. I don't say this condescendingly — I definitely have this problem myself. Many times I swore up and down that I heard a difference, only to make benchmark recordings, listen back, and then realize that my imagination was doing most of the work. That's why the only evidence I consider truly convincing is audio. As in, ReAmp the identical performance through the same signal chain, with nothing changing except the particular Klon. I doubt that anyone will get results that make listeners say, say, "Holy cow! The mids really are dramatically different!" Or that if we were to scope the resulting signals, that we'd see dramatically different midrange emphasis. But I'm certainly open to persuasion in the face of such evidence!

    FWIW, this is the method I'll to use to compare Klon clones in my article.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  12. Spider Mark

    Spider Mark Member

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    I've tried multiple Klon(e)s and much, much prefer my KTR.

    I don't care what a magazine says.
     
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  13. ned7flat5

    ned7flat5 Member

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    Encouraged by an outbreak of TGP inspired bargain fever, I bought one of those cheap Mosky Golden Horse klones a while back with no expectations.

    It’s arrival from the Far East happened to coincide with a hastily organised gig in a terrible sounding room.

    I decided to use just it with a Strat and Twin Reverb and, despite all the unfavourable conditions, with the tone it delivered, I played the most inspired I’d had in a long time. It temporarily “replaced” my usual FD2 and OCD pairing.

    Predictably, it developed a high pitched background whistle after the one gig and it’s now gone to the parts bin, but it whetted my appetite for another Klone but, y’know, “once bitten”....

    (Mosky don’t reply to emails)

     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  14. andrekp

    andrekp Member

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    you went through this in another thread. You were wrong there, and you are wrong here. You simply have no basis at all to say anything about why the particular diodes might have been used in the Klon and have shown no evidence that you understand the principle involved.
     
  15. andrekp

    andrekp Member

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    My personal theory is that the diodes, purposely chosen because they are unobtainium, are a distraction. They are meant to throw off the people who believe that diodes can be magical.

    what is really going on, under my theory, is one of two things:
    1. Nothing. There is no magic only marketing. Any differences between one Klon and another, or a Klone, is due to tolerance differences in the components with maybe some confirmation bias.

    2. Bill ACTUALLY “tweaked” the Klon by purposely choosing components at particular ranges of their tolerances. You might see a .047uF cap on the schematic, and just put the same type in, without knowing that Bill (hypothetically) always put in .047uF caps that actually measured .038-39uF, in other words, using far from marked tolerances to advantage. This would keep the Klones from sounding the same, while not being obvious to anybody.

    I don’t know the answer, but I think the diodes matter significantly issue has long been settled by the DIY community.
     
  16. OotMagroot

    OotMagroot Supporting Member

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    Suhr makes some pretty good pedals. You might want to check them out.
     
  17. dcburn

    dcburn Member

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    I have the VSMO also and agree 100%!
     
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  18. chankgeez

    chankgeez Member

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    Wot? Where?
    That may be, but the diodes were chosen before they became "unobtainium".

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Surf Sloth

    Surf Sloth Supporting Member

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    You couldn’t have said this any better.

    I love my KTR. My story is a bit different. I didn’t go through a bunch of klones since I had an original klon. I spent a whole day playing it side by side with the KTR through a loop switcher. It sounded exactly the same TO MY EARS. Same response and dynamics. I listed and sold the klon that same night for a good profit.
     
  20. sanhozay

    sanhozay klon free since 2009 Silver Supporting Member

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    centura is incredible - just epic! in girth and sound. selling mine because it's simply too big for my modest board {14x20}. i'm also loving the decibelics. these are closes i've had to my old klons. there's a perceptible difference between the klones when you roll in the gain. not so much as a clean boost but the focus and feel is there if you aren't coloring the space with a lot of other effects. for me, the ceriatone & decibelics are the best i've played.


    my old klons
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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