Why doesn't Two-Rock...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by mprvise, Mar 21, 2006.


  1. mprvise

    mprvise Member

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    make a "reissue" version of the Em. Pro??? So many guys swear by them, so why don't the Two-Rock guys just start making them again? I'm quite sure they would sell. Hell, I would probably buy one. I know the company line ("constant improvements, blah, blah, blah"), but for at least 5-10 guys on TGP this amp is "it". Thoughts?

    FWIW - I own another Two-Rock model and I'm quite pleased with it.
     
  2. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    For one thing, they changed transformer companys I think, ( Later E.Pros and when it became the Topaz), and IMO, the tone went downhill bigtime. IA/Bd the Topaz and E.Pros and Ultrasound, and there was a big difference, and NOT for the better. If they do it, they need the the transformers that were in the early ones. It also makes sense to me, because the Custom series is Dumbles pre "post overdrive tone stack" model. The E.Pro has the Post overdrive tone stack, which gives a VERY different type of tone. (One which I love) It is also the smoothest sounding TwoRock, which I like, but others (Marshall heads) may not.
     
  3. zoooombiex

    zoooombiex Supporting Member

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    this has come up before. i can't imagine there's a reason why they couldn't make them - it's not like it was a labratory accident, they made a couple hundred. even if their old parts supplier is unavailable, i can't imagine it is the only one on the planet.

    also, the sigs are selling quite well and reportedly take up most of their production time, so they don't really need to do it just to make money. this board probably skews our perception a bit, because a bunch of people here like the emmy, but there are obviously plenty of people out there who aren't readers/posters here who are buying up all the sigs.

    i'm guessing it's more about what amps they want to make. this happens all the time when users like a product but the manufacturer has a different idea or vision about what they want to make - like boss constantly terminating pedal lines even when lots of people like them, or mesa discontinuing models despite some people's preference for them.

    be that as it may, i'd love to get my emmy in a short-box chassis. and maybe they could use the upgraded reverb design (but maybe that wouldn't work)? it'd be quite the compact tone machine :)
     
  4. LSchefman

    LSchefman Supporting Member

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    >>i'm guessing it's more about what amps they want to make. this happens all the time when users like a product but the manufacturer has a different idea or vision about what they want to make<<

    I've asked Joe about it. They're a small shop, and can only make so many models; it takes time to design and build them. The market's reaction to their current models has been really strong. They want to keep moving forward with what they feel are improved designs.

    Now for my personal opinion:

    The E. Pro is a great amp, it does a certain thing extremely well, and Tag's was the clip that got me interested in them in the first place. The newer designs, IMHO, do even more things extremely well. I think it's a matter of "how great is great?" In other words, they're all good, TR wants to push the boundaries and not look back. Can't blame 'em, since they're succeeding with this strategy.
     
  5. roggae

    roggae Member

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    Agree 100%.
     
  6. Mike

    Mike Member

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    The answer is two-fold. 1) Bill and Joe feel they have greatly improved on that design. Obviously there are fanatical (in a good way) Pro-a-philes who like their Pro's better than subsequent models. There's an even smaller group who likes a certain version of the Pro and see it as the pinnacle. BUT, 2) there simply isn't sufficient demand. I don't know if Ultrasound still has any of the super-special Pro's in stock, but they've had around 10 for, what, 4 years now? And the fact is that those "holy grail" amps have been available and have been heavily promoted on this forum. Any model where you don't sell 10 in 4 years says something about demand.

    I "wish" Jim Kelly would go back to building amps. I "wish" they'd go back to building the Electroplex Rocket. But sometimes these amps find their way into the domain of a passionate few, which I think makes them special in their own right.

    Mike
     
  7. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    To me, the one thing the newer twoRocks can do is get more aggressive than the E.Pro. thats it. The E.Pro is so smooth, it ALWAYS has that characteristic in its tones. The funny thing is, TwoRock started with the newer Dumble designs,(Post over drive tonestack) and "progressed" into the OLDER Dumble designs. To my ear, after the E.Pro, it always sounded like they were moving backwards, and I have stated that over and over again. I guess my ears are more in line with what Dumble thinks is "progress", than what TwoRock thinks is. :dude The other point is that NO current amp they make sounds like an E.Pro. Take a note on an Emmy and bend it up. Listen to that "tubey, howling, phasing,straining" type of sound it makes. No other amp I have played makes that type of tone. Robben Fords recorded tones are the only other amp I have heard that does it to that degree. It makes you want to plug into the amp and just listen to it! It is without a doubt, one of the coolest sounding overdriven tones I have heard. Kudos to Dumble for inventing it, and for TwoRock for getting it out to the public. Just an INSANE tone! :AOK Also, add to that what to my ear is the least mid heavy clean of any of the Dumble clones, and you have a KILLER amp.

    In regards to Ultrasound still having a few, I can say this. How many members on here actually went to Ultrasound, and really A/Bd the Emmys with a Custom, or Custom reverb? Most guys suck right into the "its newer, it must be better" thing. I have NEVER bought into that, and thank goodness. once again, i remember when the Opal first came out, and I was BUMMED, I had an "older" model. It was only a few months after I bought mine I believe. Well, once I A/Bd them, I was SO thankful I tried before I bought! The Emmy SMOKED it IMO. The Opal is a nice amp, but it is WAY to heavy in the mids, and it just can not get as smooth as an E.Pro. Then the Custom came out, and I actually A/Bd my E.Pro over the phone with Steve Sniders Custom. I could hear it instantly. The E.Pro was Robben Ford city. Then thge Custom reverb. I A/Bd this with my E.Pro, and it was a no contest to me. Both clean and dirty on the Emmy was FAR superior. The CR was, and is my least favorite TwoRock. Lots of guys on here love them, and thats cool. TwoRock is a great company, and one that stands behind what they make. Just for me and my Dumble quest, it was always about Robben Ford, and a great fendery clean. The Emmy IS that amp.

    Of course TwoRock can make them again if they wanted. From other VERY reliable and informed sources, it is an EXACT, and specific Dumble circuit. Rather a unique and rare one from what I have heard. In any case, I could care less. It has the TONE.
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Member

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    I guess the company is not as sure about them selling, especially since they're still available at Ultrasound after 4 years. Anyone interested can go and try one (or not) and buy one. One other thing on the "re-issue" question, is that the EPro was built on a different chassis too. So reissuing them for afficianados would be a costly proposition. Maybe in another few years when the existing stock sells out, and the used ones are going for $4200, which is what they were new in 2002, (instead of <$2000) then the economics might make sense. I hope I've spoken directly to your question.

    Mike
     
  9. OldSchool

    OldSchool Senior Member

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    I haven't played every model of Two Rock...........but I will admit, My Emerald Pro does all that and then some!! :AOK :dude
     
  10. mprvise

    mprvise Member

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    Thanks for the replies all. I love this place - you ask a question, you get some good answers, and you learn a bunch of other stuff too. :AOK My next amp may very well be an Em. Pro.

    For the record, I have a CR Artist and absolutely love it (and so does everybody else who hears it or plays through it). It is currently in a tie for my favorite amp I own. The other favorite? Tag will be happy to know it's a Bruno. :)
     
  11. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    :AOK :AOK :AOK :AOK :AOK
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Member

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    That's a KILLER amp. Do you use a TR 1x12 TR65 with it? The BOMB. Glad to have a chance to address your question.

    Mike
     
  13. mprvise

    mprvise Member

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    Yep, 1X12 TR cab - easy to lug to gigs and sounds fantastic! :AOK :AOK

    Thanks Mike.
     
  14. cnardone

    cnardone Supporting Member

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    The first Time I heard an Emmie was the summer of 2000. I was in completely floored. Incredible amp. Last year I went to ultra sound and played an opal, emmy, and LTD. My favorite at moderate volume was the opal. The more volume I got the more I liked the LTD. Then I went and played the emmie and it was like having my head sliced off. I thought it was incredibly aggressive on the high end. Bright even. I wound up with a Custom in the end. I'd love to get a LTD though. with 6V6s I think it starts to get sweet at a more moderate volumes than the 50 watters.

    They are all great. It is just flavors.
     
  15. zoooombiex

    zoooombiex Supporting Member

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    interesting. that's the opposite of what i would have expected and what you usually hear about the emmy. i've found the emmy to have the softest and least aggressive top end. that could just be how i hear it ... but i have to wonder if there was something funny in the setup. but then again, they do know their stuff there, so that seems unlikely.

    anyway, glad you found one you liked!
     
  16. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Yep! I have played lots of them. The Emmy is by far the smoothest. Thew big complaint seemed to be it was to dark, and did not "cut through the mix" enough. :rolleyes: Ultra does have high gain ones, and they are very different! Also, there is one emmie that is TOTALLY messed up. It was not in the Ultra room. They actually did not have a low gain E.Pro in the Ultraroom the last few times I was there. You had to request one! remember, if it is a high gainer...ALL BETS ARE OFF! As Scott lerner said, the low gainer is a very unique and specific Dumble. :AOK Originally, Joe had said only 12 were made, and they ALL went to Ultrasound. Some were later converted over, but these could have different caps and or transformers. The ones I am talking about are from ULTRASOUND. I was there when the arrived, and were in boxes marked LOW GAIN E.PRO.
     
  17. Maven

    Maven Supporting Member

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    So how can you tell if it's a low gain or high gain? Mine (probably a high gain) is going to Joe tomorrow to be checked out. Hopefully I'll have it by next week. Looking forward to posting my results after getting comfortable with it. I'm just happy to be a Two Rock owner. Every clip I've heard has been awesome. Can't wait to hear it for myself!
     
  18. guitarguy3612

    guitarguy3612 Senior Member

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    Say I found an Emerald Pro, High Gain that is, could Bill and Joe Mod it for the Low Gain, to Tag's specifications???
     
  19. zoooombiex

    zoooombiex Supporting Member

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    Joe can easily tell you if it's high or low. But I wouldn't get too worried about it. I have a high gain version and it does exactly what everyone says an emmy should do - smooth fat overdrive.
     
  20. zoooombiex

    zoooombiex Supporting Member

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    it's an easy mod - i believe there is only one different capacitor or something along those lines. i asked about the same thing when i got my emmy, but after playing it i stopped worrying. i'm still curious to a/b the difference, but i'm quite happy with how my amp sounds - be it high gain, low gain, or made of legos inside.

    i'm reaching a bit, but i think it's safe to say that if you get yours (presumably a high gain) and you don't like it, doing a low gain mod probably isn't going to change your mind. but if you get yours and you DO like it, you can always look into the mod to see if it gets you an extra bit of smile.

    FWIW, flyingvblues had his emmy modded to low gain specs, and ended up going back to the high gain version which he preferred.
     

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