Why dont the re-issue plexi amps sound like the real deal 72's?

[jezzzz2003]

Having played a few 100 watters from around the 72-73 era, why doesnt my 50w re-issue sound the same? sure it uses modern day components but does anyone have a more specific theory?
is it because its a 50?

 

[gnugear]

The transformers.

I've built clones and had reissues and none have the same tone as my '73 and '74 superleads. I even built them with Mustards. There's a depth and complexity that's lacking.

 

[rcgpny1]

I agree. I had original early to mid 70's 4 input marshall 100 heads...I played alot of the plexi reissues and none sound anywhere as good as those metal-front superleads. All of the reissues have an ugly ghost harmonic that becomes apparent at higher levels. The 70's heads i had did not do this. They were also much more "aggressive" in the sense that as soon as you turned the high treble channel up at all you felt like it was all the way up!(funny thing ..it had more room to go!) Its all of the differences...components, transformers..all of these add up to why the new ones are just kinda "eh"

P.S> The handwired stuff is significantly better.

 

[rooster]

Back when you could get them, the OEI OT's from Joe Pampel were fantastic. I'm not sure if he's still winding them, but they were dead on. I'm having high hopes for Heyboer these days. We'll see when I get my 50 watters wired up.

rooster.

 

[Tag]

Having played a few 100 watters from around the 72-73 era, why doesnt my 50w re-issue sound the same? sure it uses modern day components but does anyone have a more specific theory?
is it because its a 50?

The 72s had FAR more gain than the plexis. The RIs are plexi clones right? I owned almost every marshall you can think of, and the 72 was the best if you want to rock. VERY different sounding than a plexi hwever. No cleans at all though. Soooo...a RI will never sound like an early 70s, because thats not what they are!

 

[NatDeroxL7]

Just out of curiosity, how easy is it to find original 72s and how much coinage would one expect to dole out for one?

I've always wanted a vintage Marshall more than I have ever wanted a vintage guitar.

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Crappier and smaller Cheapo transformers vs the old iron, mustard caps and carbon comp resistors on the old amps. Bright caps that kill you until you clip them on the newer reissues ..... stuff like that.

 

[fjs1962]

Greg Germino built a Lead 55 for me about a year ago and I had him set it up like a early 70's metal panel instead of the way the Lead 55 usually comes. It sounds great, aggresive and gainy with a tight, punchy low end. It's not much on cleans, but then clean wasn't what I wanted it for

 

[Tag]

Greg Germino built a Lead 55 for me about a year ago and I had him set it up like a early 70's metal panel instead of the way the Lead 55 usually comes. It sounds great, aggresive and gainy with a tight, punchy low end. It's not much on cleans, but then clean wasn't what I wanted it for

Thats how my 72 was. It was a 50 watter, and started breaking up at just over talking levels. By 12 on the volume knob it was TOTALLY gained out, and turning up the volume from there just added mush. It was not a real loud amp either. IMO, the best Marshall ever made for hard rocking. I had a MV added later that worked like a charm as well. Did not change the tone at all. The guy who did it went by the name of "Pancakes for breakfast". (no $hit) He lived in Waldwick NJ, and still does as far as I know. Great player as well.

 

[Unburst]

50 watters from '72 don't sound like 100 watters either.

 

[steve10358]

50 watters from '72 don't sound like 100 watters either.

+1!!!!

 

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

Thats how my 72 was. It was a 50 watter, and started breaking up at just over talking levels. By 12 on the volume knob it was TOTALLY gained out, and turning up the volume from there just added mush.

geez Tag, every time U talk about the last run of tag board constructed 50 watt marshalls, U make me pine for one of the few amps i've ever sold. absolutely tremendous amp. i sold it because i had moved to a big city where rents were outrageous and i was in a roots/rock band aand thought the marshall 'overkill'. i knew as soon as we went into the studio that i'd made a huge error selling it.

the 100 watt amps are quite a bit different sounding than the 50 watters and, for sure, the early '70s metal panel amps are much different than the earlier plexi ones. FWIW, altho' i've never directly A/B'd them, the 1987X plexi reissue amp is not that far away from the /early '70s metal panel. marshall amps. fairly high gain and pretty aggressive sound - smooth sounding w/ the right glass and pretty rock solid construction. i've had mine for 10 years and it still is kicking. despite the higher $$$ germino, komet, carol-ann, bludo amps that the lowly marshall shares space w/, i keep the marshall around because of it's inherent character and it isn't embarrassed by it pricey brethren/sistern.

 

[jezzzz2003]

The 72s had FAR more gain than the plexis. The RIs are plexi clones right? I owned almost every marshall you can think of, and the 72 was the best if you want to rock. VERY different sounding than a plexi hwever. No cleans at all though. Soooo...a RI will never sound like an early 70s, because thats not what they are!

They have the plexi face but theyre a 72 model inside

 

[Tag]

50 watters from '72 don't sound like 100 watters either.

Agree. They sound like they have much more gain for some reason. My 100 watters would never overdrive that much.

 

[Tag]

Do '71's have the same characteristics as the '72? I have a line on one that's all original, and it's my birth year...so there's an excuse for the wife.

72s sound hotter to me. More gain. Its the only vintage Marshall that I never needed a drive box with. It had plenty on its own.

 

[jezzzz2003]

Yes were talking metal panel amps, the re-issues just have the plexi front for looks I guess,

Also, Ive been playing mine with the bright cap still intact for years, if I clip it, will it react the same as the stock amp does when plugged into the high treble input on 10?
I believe that when hitting full volume the cap is inactive?

 

[oakfloor]

Those old marshalls had big output trannys, that could put 450 volts on the plates of real mullard xf el34 power tubes, and well seasoned greenbacks. And players could get "that'" tone out of there amps with there hand...

 

[oakfloor]

Yes brew, Im a hardwood installer and refinisher.

 

[paulscape]

I like hearing about '72 being a good year. Its my birth year

I have a modded plexi 1987x RI. Ive never had the good fortune of playing a real vintage plexi nor the early 70's marshalls. I had my 1987x modded by David Bray and I must say Im very very happy with what he did to it compared with what Ive heard of the stock re-issues. Its way more alive.

If I were to improve my RI's tone would a new high quality transformer really make a big enough difference to justify it? I know Dave has done all the usual mods for gain, bright cuts, MV etc and I know he's tweaked the values of components but I dont know if he's actually changed out many components. When installing a new transformer does that mean the amp would have to be 're-tweaked' to adjust the value of components to match the new tranny?

 

[Unabender]

Not to nitpick, but the '72 output transformers were not probably "better transformers" than the transformers today.

They might in fact be crappier in an audio application, but in a right way to sound good in a guitar amp.

Modern transformers sound too harsh? Probably because they do not cut the frequencies that sound harsh, unlike the old transformers.

And if you want to buy a "high quality" transformer for your amp, you are probably REALLY looking for a transformer that's actually more low quality... in terms of frequency response.