Why Don't They Include an FX Loop?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Wobegon, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. shadesofgray

    shadesofgray Senior Member

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    I'm not telling you what to use, i'm explaining why builders choose not to make their amplifiers sound worse by implementing fx loops.
     
  2. Roodboy

    Roodboy Member

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    I wonder how many effects loop issues are caused by instrument level pedals in line level loops.
     
  3. enigma

    enigma Member

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    I require effects loop on all my amps, except for vintage stuff obviously.
     
  4. somedude

    somedude Member

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    Mesa's been doing this for almost a couple of decades. Not sure when they started it, but my 1992 Dual Rectifier has the ability to true bypass the loop.

    Engaging the loop tames the top and bottom end. I assume this is because they pad the signal down to jive with pedals, then re-amp it back up before feeding it to the power amp.

    Oddly enough, I prefer the sound of the loop being on even though I don't usually put anything in it. Warms things up a bit.
     
  5. oxtone

    oxtone Member

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    My Mesa Studio Preamp has a very good loop - it doesn't suck tone. On the other hand, I've tried the loop in Orange amps, and it ruined the tone.
     
  6. JoeB63

    JoeB63 Supporting Member

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    What does "suck tone" mean?

    Describe "tone" first.

    Can you add tone after it's been sucked? Is "blowing tone" the opposite of "suck tone?"
     
  7. suparsonic

    suparsonic Member

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    Soldano don't put a loop in the Avenger to keep the signal path as pure as possible, those amps are built for straight up rock tones. On the other hand the loop in my 5153 is as good as it gets, and it's foot swichable so I can bypass it when not needed. I admit there is a little tone trade when using loops but only marginal using quality fx.
    I asume some amp builders leave them out to keep costs down? You can always install an aftermarket loop later!
     
  8. jaclo

    jaclo Member

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    Yah, I don't know how folks like Hendrix, Page, Van Halen, Rhoads, etc, etc, functioned without a loop, damn losers!!!!

    For the best solution, check out Eric Johnson's approch, no stinking loops here!!!
    http://www.ericjohnson.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9&Itemid=8
     
  9. andrekp

    andrekp Member

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    Yeah...'cause nothin' says "tone" like a high gain amp with flange and delay added in...

    :barf
     
  10. Giga

    Giga Member

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    Switching sockets only take out the physical loop and not the circuitry connected to it..... (or is that nonsense too maybe ?)

    Giga
     
  11. prsnstrat

    prsnstrat Member

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    Not everyone uses high gain the same way. :munch
     
  12. shadesofgray

    shadesofgray Senior Member

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    Bypass/Off on an fx loop almost never takes the actual fx loop out of the circuit, it will still lower the voltage from the gain stage and then amplify it again

    The only amps i've seen with a true bypass fx loop that takes the entire fx loop out of the circuit when it's disengaged is the vox custom classic amps..

    It's easier to just buy a non-fxloop amp and buy the metro zeroloss fx loop kit for $90 and solder the 2-3 wires needed for a non-tonesucking fx loop

    That loop works with most amps, not just the ones metro sell.
     
  13. somedude

    somedude Member

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    None of those guys were using channel switching amps.

    (back in the day anyway... don't know what those who're still alive are using now)

    And Eric Johnson has roadies.
     
  14. Rena Rune

    Rena Rune Member

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    I can't stand this sort of school of thought, effects loops suck tone, master volume sucks tone.... what tone are they sucking exactly? They're colouring tone yes, just like every component does.

    not if they're done right, and at the prices most amps retail for, it would not cost very much to do them right.
     
  15. Rena Rune

    Rena Rune Member

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    Yeah, my Moon Phaser can't go in a loop which really sucks. Though then again, I used it on some synth stuff which would have been line level; I recorded stuff to the Korg PX4D's looper, then back into my audio interface.

    Line level loops shouldn't really affect tone that much if it's just an in out between the pre and power amp, as far as I know.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
  16. blackba

    blackba Supporting Member

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    If I am getting my distortion from the amp (either being a channel switching or cranking the small amp), then I really like to have an effects loop. I don't like my analog delay before a distorted amp.

    I like the switch on the AC30CC1 I used to have. You could take the loop out of the signal path. On my mesa mark IV, there is a footswitchable loop, which I find very useful as well.

    Right now my 2 channel switching amps have loops and my 3 Single channel vintage amps do not have loops. On the vintage amps I am using them as clean amps with pedals, so not having a loop doesn't bother me.

    Long story short, I prefer to have an effects loop if given the option.
     
  17. Schafrocks

    Schafrocks Supporting Member

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    Put one in a JCM 800. Works great.
     
  18. shadesofgray

    shadesofgray Senior Member

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    They're coloring the tone in a bad way because 99% of the effects loop designs rely on a lowered voltage between gainstages for them to work

    You're right. It wouldn't cost much to do it right, but the fact remains that 99% of the amplifiers on the market aren't doing it right.

    This is the third time I write the exact same information :(
     
  19. sysexguy

    sysexguy Member

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    I guess I'm in the minority here but adding a loop or even a switch for future addition of an effects loop will change an amp's tone. From collective experience, in many cases, this isn't a change for the better, hence "tone suck".

    Certain companies offer the option of an all tube buffered effects loop however in most cases, the upcharge is more than many are willing to pay for an entire amp.

    As previously mentioned, the best workaround wrt sonics is to use a device to tap the speaker output (such as the Suhr Iso-Line Out) and run that signal through the effects and into a wet stereo rig to create a W/D/W rig but that requires a significant amount of ancillary equipment.

    As there are no manufacturers that hide their effect loop possibilities ie, one can easily see what one is buying, one can make this best choice for one's needs.

    Andy
     
  20. Rena Rune

    Rena Rune Member

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    Which you haven't provided any real evidence for.

    I still say it's Corksniffer BS in most cases, based on some bad experiences.
     

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