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Why hasn't anyone built a small box exact replica of DL4's looper?

Twinattack

Member
Messages
1,183
I've been wondering this for years!

DL4 was my first proper looper. Got one when they first came out and it wasn't long before I forgot about the actual delays because the looper was always in use. To me, the functionality is what made it so great.

REC/DUB PLAY/STOP PLAY ONCE 1/2SPEED/REV

That specific layout made it such a breeze. My big knock with most loopers now (smaller ones at least) is the need to double-tap to stop or end recording to go straight into playback. That sh*t drives me crazy.

But PLAY/ONCE was the coolest though.

I know L6 has gotten a lot of grief over durability but I used the looper constantly and it was at least 12-13 years before the switches started to go bad. Having said that, I did witness another player had a switch pop out, shot up and hit him straight in the face during a gig lol!

I've been waiting for something like that again. I don't care about size really, but give it some sturdier switches and the recording power of today's loopers and I'm in.
 

Auxjoel

Member
Messages
322
Oh right, I forgot that exists. There is also the expedition electronics one.
The Expedition Electronics doesn't work as a looper per se as it more infitely overlays long a long delay time, rather than allowing loops like a DL4 would.
The Maneco Sweet 16 looks flippin' awesome EXCEPT.... for that darn popping noise that appears to occur when you set the end of your loop phrase and the 'pop' gets recorded in the playback.... grrrrr if they got rid of that, then the Maneco would be a real winner!
 

InkblotNebula

Member
Messages
1,137
The Expedition Electronics doesn't work as a looper per se as it more infitely overlays long a long delay time, rather than allowing loops like a DL4 would.
The Maneco Sweet 16 looks flippin' awesome EXCEPT.... for that darn popping noise that appears to occur when you set the end of your loop phrase and the 'pop' gets recorded in the playback.... grrrrr if they got rid of that, then the Maneco would be a real winner!
Most definitely dude, sorry, we got into the weeds with the guy wanting a modern 16ddl. I didn't even realize the maneco could work sort of like a normal looper. I thought it was stuck with the delay time window idea. The click sucks.
 

Auxjoel

Member
Messages
322
Most definitely dude, sorry, we got into the weeds with the guy wanting a modern 16ddl. I didn't even realize the maneco could work sort of like a normal looper. I thought it was stuck with the delay time window idea. The click sucks.
Oh yeah no dramas. I am really intrigued by that Maneco but yeah maybe just a bridge too far on the "Lofi sound"
 

splatt

david torn / splattercell
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
25,700
This discussion is making me wonder how much diversity there is in the way musicians use loopers.

For example, how long are our loops? Looking back over last years projects I seem to have three kinds of loops:

1) Infinite-delay-repeat effect, somewhere around 1 second (I usually do these with a delay pedal).
2) Texture/pad loops, generally between 20 and 40 seconds.
3) Main theme loops, between 1 and 3 minutes.

So how long are everyone else’s loops these days?
my live-loop use generally ranges from roughly 6-milliseconds to >2-minutes; but, i also engage in "open" looping, in which i can progressively unlock & re-lock the loop & alter its pitch and/or length; since i often use at least 3-looping devices, this can lead to myriad shifting/evolving/devolving motifs & atmospheres.

i have 2 regular (pedal) loopers that are set-up to instantly engage in a few differing versions of truly randomised, windowed playback, so that even a short loop continues to sound non-repetitive, even when i don't alter its length.

when i use the electrix repeater as one of my active loopers, though, it's not unusual for me to time-stretch a loop much longer than i've bothered to measure, lol.
 
Last edited:

splatt

david torn / splattercell
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
25,700
The Expedition Electronics doesn't work as a looper per se as it more infitely overlays long a long delay time, rather than allowing loops like a DL4 would.
The Maneco Sweet 16 looks flippin' awesome EXCEPT.... for that darn popping noise that appears to occur when you set the end of your loop phrase and the 'pop' gets recorded in the playback.... grrrrr if they got rid of that, then the Maneco would be a real winner!
well, no, that's not right, joel:
the Expedition Electronics definitely works as a looper, per sé; there is an infinite switch which allows you to "lock" whatever is in the delay's memory to endlessly repeat, until you "re-open" it or shut the power down.
this is
a) part of the nature of the OG electronic SOUND-ON-SOUND looping, just post-tape-looping, from the late 1970's-early '80's:
that, and
b) that you don't need to hit "record" to feed the loop; the box is always listening/always recording (until you hit that "infinite" switch), which is an incredibly great & absolutely creative feature/flaw, imo & ime, and
c) that changing the delay time changes pitch and does NOT change it back until you return to the exact previous delay-time (if ever).
 

Wilhelm67

Senior Member
Messages
127
well, no, that's not right:
the Expedition Electronics definitely works as a looper, per sé; there is an infinite switch which allows you to "lock" whatever is in the delay's memory to endlessly repeat, until you "re-open" it or shut the power down.
this is part of the nature of the OG electronic looping, just post-tape-looping, from the late 1970's-early '80's: that, and the fact that you don't need to hit "record" to feed the loop; the box is always listening/always recording (until you hit that "infinite" switch), which is an incredibly great & absolutely creative feature/flaw, imo & ime.
What I believe was meant by saying it’s not a looper per se is that you can’t set the in and out points precisely with a footswitch as with what we consider modern loopers, and definitely with the device at hand, the DL4. As you say, it’s just always recording unless in hold mode.
 

splatt

david torn / splattercell
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
25,700
What I believe was meant by saying it’s not a looper per se is that you can’t set the in and out points precisely with a footswitch as with what we consider modern loopers, and definitely with the device at hand, the DL4. As you say, it’s just always recording unless in hold mode.
yup, ok, but:
these OG looping devices have def not lost their creative power, and there are plenty of folks who use such-like original loopers, to this day.
they still exist, and some new looper-manufacturers have clearly begun to emulate their functionalities, esp. those sonically creative features that went missing for a while during the "phrase-sampling" spike+trend of live-looping.
 

Wilhelm67

Senior Member
Messages
127
yup, ok, but:
these OG looping devices have def not lost their creative power, and there are plenty of folks who use such-like original loopers, to this day.
they still exist, and some new looper-manufacturers have clearly begun to emulate their functionalities, esp. those sonically creative features that went missing for a while during the "phrase-sampling" spike+trend of live-looping.
No one is contesting what you’re saying, just clarifying what was meant.
In terms of modern loopers emulating these creative features (and those of the actual OG loopers, tape decks and echo machines with SOS capabilities), I’m a bit confused why only one person (me) has mentioned what seems like the top of the heap, blooper.
 

Turnipfarmer

Member
Messages
960
The blooper speed control is seriously lacking in my opinion. It's not accurate with midi for the simplist things like half speed, or +1, or even instant reverse and without midi it needs to be dialed in by ear for each interval and not repeatable on the fly.

I have found it alright for messing around and having fun, terrible at doing what I use my 16sec digital delay for.
 

splatt

david torn / splattercell
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
25,700
No one is contesting what you’re saying, just clarifying what was meant.
In terms of modern loopers emulating these creative features (and those of the actual OG loopers, tape decks and echo machines with SOS capabilities), I’m a bit confused why only one person (me) has mentioned what seems like the top of the heap, blooper.
i didn't wanna be combative or anything! since i've been involved with looping devices for most of my life, i wanted to clarify that the Expedition is, in fact, a bona fide looping device: it surely does loop, but it's not necessarily a now-typical phrase-sampler.

and, blooper is def great, imo..... it does a bit of emulation of some OG looping effects, in its own way, as well as delivering some more modern effects. its contention with pitch-changing & time-stretching could be more tight, tidy & more specifically accessible, ime, but it's still a really great looper!
 

Tabor

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,779
The blooper speed control is seriously lacking in my opinion. It's not accurate with midi for the simplist things like half speed, or +1, or even instant reverse
Really? I thought midi CC values correspond to exact values so wouldn’t there be corresponding values for half speed, +1, reverse etc? I agree some of those effects have a very narrow window on the knob sweep but I figure that’s the point of the Midi CC values is to be able to go precisely to that spot.
 

splatt

david torn / splattercell
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
25,700
The blooper speed control is seriously lacking in my opinion. It's not accurate with midi for the simplist things like half speed, or +1, or even instant reverse and without midi it needs to be dialed in by ear for each interval and not repeatable on the fly.

I have found it alright for messing around and having fun, terrible at doing what I use my 16sec digital delay for.
ah, my "direct re-pitching access via MIDI" feature was never implemented, afaik.
maybe it wasn't possible, but i've no idea why it disappeared. it was critical, for me.
 

Turnipfarmer

Member
Messages
960
Really? I thought midi CC values correspond to exact values so wouldn’t there be corresponding values for half speed, +1, reverse etc? I agree some of those effects have a very narrow window on the knob sweep but I figure that’s the point of the Midi CC values is to be able to go precisely to that spot.
yeah, you would think, but the midi commands for the octave jumps and reverse are off by a noticeable amount. I think it was discussed in the blooper thread and was supposed to be addressed by chase bliss. I came up with a very simple solution and suggested some new simplified speed modifiers but that wasn't even recognized so I figured I would just wait for their update.
 

Wilhelm67

Senior Member
Messages
127
The blooper speed control is seriously lacking in my opinion. It's not accurate with midi for the simplist things like half speed, or +1, or even instant reverse and without midi it needs to be dialed in by ear for each interval and not repeatable on the fly.

I have found it alright for messing around and having fun, terrible at doing what I use my 16sec digital delay for.
Really? Even in Step Speed mode? Smooth speed is indeed impossible to quantize, but Step Speed even with just the knob or expression pedal is totally accurate to octaves and fifths for me, forward or reverse.
 

Auxjoel

Member
Messages
322
well, no, that's not right, joel:
the Expedition Electronics definitely works as a looper, per sé; there is an infinite switch which allows you to "lock" whatever is in the delay's memory to endlessly repeat, until you "re-open" it or shut the power down.
this is
a) part of the nature of the OG electronic SOUND-ON-SOUND looping, just post-tape-looping, from the late 1970's-early '80's:
that, and
b) that you don't need to hit "record" to feed the loop; the box is always listening/always recording (until you hit that "infinite" switch), which is an incredibly great & absolutely creative feature/flaw, imo & ime, and
c) that changing the delay time changes pitch and does NOT change it back until you return to the exact previous delay-time (if ever).
Sorry I wasn't dissing the product, just in context of the OP I was saying it didn't fit the bill.
 

Auxjoel

Member
Messages
322
No one is contesting what you’re saying, just clarifying what was meant.
In terms of modern loopers emulating these creative features (and those of the actual OG loopers, tape decks and echo machines with SOS capabilities), I’m a bit confused why only one person (me) has mentioned what seems like the top of the heap, blooper.
Blooper in Australia goes for $800 AUD. So in that case I'd just stick with the DL4.
plus I really respect Chase Bliss and admire their products but my flabby brain looks at all those options and multi function knobs and dip switches and just crawls into a corner and starts to twitch.
 

Turnipfarmer

Member
Messages
960
Really? Even in Step Speed mode? Smooth speed is indeed impossible to quantize, but Step Speed even with just the knob or expression pedal is totally accurate to octaves and fifths for me, forward or reverse.
the pots are divided into 256?? increments I believe. to hit +1, -1 octaves and an in tune reverse with this firmware would require a midi control command between those increments. I'm no expert, people more knowledgeable have gone over it before. If a fix is on the way I don't see much use in spending any more time on it.
 

Bonedance

Member
Messages
492
Geeze, I bought a minty, used DL-8 a few years ago for less than the price of Joyo. I'm sorry to say I have to even try the looper feature. I set it to a sweet, modulated delay and have not adjusted the knobs since.

Guess I'll have to give the loop a twirl soon.
 




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