Why is my Jazz Guitar feeding back like this?

JazzMac251

Member
Messages
387
The guitar in question is an Ibanez GB10. It's a smaller body jazz box with floating humbuckers that's actually specifically designed be less feedback-prone that other fully-hollowbody guitars.

That being said, the feedback issues on the neck pickup are really bad. Playing with a band in a trio, it's basically unusable; it's essentially all low end because of feedback. Playing at practice level - slightly above a level people would be comfortable talking over - the low end is the kind of overpowering indicative of feedback issues, and I can feel the whole body resonate with certain notes as the guitar tries to take off. The thing even tries to feedback at bedroom levels!

I know feedback and jazz boxes go together like peanut butter and jelly, but this seems particularly egregious. It's actually worse than my GB200, which has a much bigger body and PAF style pickups.
 

TVa

Member
Messages
367
Smaller--bodied hollows with floating pickups have more feedback in my experience, and that is the smallest guitar I've ever seen with a floating pickup (and it has two!).

Try this, http://www.dougsplugs.com/ or something like it.

Even if you leave one f-hole open and one plugged, I bet you will be good to go.
 

JazzMac251

Member
Messages
387
Yeah, I was trying to avoid doing that, but that may be the only option. Ugh.

I've been taping one of my F holes and that helps a lot, but it really changes the feel of the instrument (duh).
 

Flyin' Brian

Member
Messages
30,546
Where are you standing relative to your amp?

I play all sorts of gigs with a Heritage Prospect, which has a floating block in it.
Even using OD and the like I can control the feedback, often in a very musical way, because I use it intentionally sometimes.
 

woof*

Member
Messages
8,803
You can try stuffing it and potting the pickups. But theres a point where volume and hollow bodies feedback. At the volumes your describing its probably the cheaper pickups.
 

JazzMac251

Member
Messages
387
Where are you standing relative to your amp?

I play all sorts of gigs with a Heritage Prospect, which has a floating block in it.
Even using OD and the like I can control the feedback, often in a very musical way, because I use it intentionally sometimes.

Way too close on the louder gigs, to be honest, but I don't always have much of a choice.

You can try stuffing it and potting the pickups. But theres a point where volume and hollow bodies feedback. At the volumes your describing its probably the cheaper pickups.

That's kinda what I thought, too. Are the mini-HBs on the Benson line cheap? It's a fairly high-end guitar.
 

woof*

Member
Messages
8,803
Way too close on the louder gigs, to be honest, but I don't always have much of a choice.



That's kinda what I thought, too. Are the mini-HBs on the Benson line cheap? It's a fairly high-end guitar.
Sorry im not familiar with this model.
If it was me ...id try some really non dense foam and stuff it inside..it breaks up the sound waves and helps a lot. I did this to a 63 ES 125 cutaway and was able to make it usable with a 100 watt plexi in the 70's.
 

Flyin' Brian

Member
Messages
30,546
Way too close on the louder gigs, to be honest, but I don't always have much of a choice.
I can relate.

Here's a guy I studied with when I lived in Chicago.

You can see that he has clear packing tape on the upper F hole of his guitar.
I believe that George Benson has used the same technique.

 

dewey decibel

Member
Messages
11,482
I know feedback and jazz boxes go together like peanut butter and jelly, but this seems particularly egregious. It's actually worse than my GB200, which has a much bigger body and PAF style pickups.

Well the GB-200's top has been routed to mount those humbuckers, correct? That's why it doesn't feedback as much. You didn't mention what amp you're using, but EQ can have a huge effect as well. Watch those low and mid frequencies, you may want to invest in a graphic EQ pedal, sometimes you can sort of remove the offending frequencies without changing the tone too much. Otherwise, f-hole plugs, stuffing it with foam, and changing body position in relation to the amp is about as much as you can do, unless you're willing to have a luthier install sound posts connecting the top to the back.
 
M

Member 995

I had a Heritage that had similar feedback issues. Even at bedroom volumes certain notes would take off into uncontrollable feedback. You'd feel the body of the guitar pumping. Sold it and moved on.
 

TVa

Member
Messages
367
JazzMac, I can understand your feeling regarding my idea about the Doug's plugs.

What kind of amp are you using? As you obviously know, where you're sitting/standing relative to the amp is important (trying to get the least amount of vibration from the amp into the body of the guitar), but I've also noticed that some of my amps like my jazz guitars less than others.

They may have more of a frequency that causes feedback or they may spread the sound out in a way that comes back on me more. Are you sitting or standing when you play these gigs?
 

kimock

Member
Messages
12,520
Stand up a post inside the guitar to couple the top and the back.
One under the bass side of the bridge foot ought to do it, I use two.

Kills all that first box resonance "boom" completely.
Guitar will still feedback at useful musical fundamental frequencies if you want, it's still hollow, just nowhere near as resonant.
Kills your low end acoustically too, but it's totally non-invasive and easily removed.
It's just a stick.
 

Blues Fuse

Member
Messages
425
Is your GB10 a fairly new one that was made in recent years? The newer ones have hotter pickups. George Benson has had the pickups on his guitars rewound to 7.5K by the folks at Seymour Duncan. As a first step, if it's possible, try to get a reading using a multimeter on the pickups. Some of the GB10's can have pickups in the 12K range and that's pretty hot. It might be that the pickups in your GB10 simply have too much output and that's why you're getting so much feedback. I'd consider this before adding a soundpost, stuffing, or something else, internally. Your GB10 has a thick top and it shouldn't be going crazy in most jazz trio situations. It might be you can solve the problem with a pickup rewind or some new lower output pickups.
 

Jim Soloway

Member
Messages
15,266
Some viable solutions posted but the problem I always had with most of them is that they involve killing the acoustic properties of the guitar so you end up with a guitar that has neither acoustic presence nor natural sustain. At that point I'd rather play a Tele.
 

kimock

Member
Messages
12,520
Some viable solutions posted but the problem I always had with most of them is that they involve killing the acoustic properties of the guitar so you end up with a guitar that has neither acoustic presence nor natural sustain. At that point I'd rather play a Tele.
Jim, he's playing an Ibanez with major box resonance feedback issues.
The choice isn't between a guitar with acoustic presence and natural sustain and one without.

It's kinda between an Ibanez that doesn't work and one that might.

Box shakes?
Stiffen the box. .

right?

Not for yours or mine maybe, but for this one?
 

daa2202

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
819
Maybe an ES-3x5 or ES-3x9-style guitar would be a better choice? This is one of the reasons they were invented.
 

Mincer

Senior Member
Messages
4,596
The earlier ones don't feed back unless you are standing right in front of the amp with lots of gain. I agree here...check the pickups with a meter and see what you have. I don't think anything is wrong with the guitar.

Is your GB10 a fairly new one that was made in recent years? The newer ones have hotter pickups. George Benson has had the pickups on his guitars rewound to 7.5K by the folks at Seymour Duncan. As a first step, if it's possible, try to get a reading using a multimeter on the pickups. Some of the GB10's can have pickups in the 12K range and that's pretty hot. It might be that the pickups in your GB10 simply have too much output and that's why you're getting so much feedback. I'd consider this before adding a soundpost, stuffing, or something else, internally. Your GB10 has a thick top and it shouldn't be going crazy in most jazz trio situations. It might be you can solve the problem with a pickup rewind or some new lower output pickups.
 

2HBStrat

Member
Messages
41,216
Some viable solutions posted but the problem I always had with most of them is that they involve killing the acoustic properties of the guitar so you end up with a guitar that has neither acoustic presence nor natural sustain. At that point I'd rather play a Tele.

Tele for jazz?.....nah, can't be done!!!
Ed1JazzGuitarV2frontlarge.jpg
 

Jim Soloway

Member
Messages
15,266
Jim, he's playing an Ibanez with major box resonance feedback issues.
The choice isn't between a guitar with acoustic presence and natural sustain and one without.

It's kinda between an Ibanez that doesn't work and one that might.

Box shakes?
Stiffen the box. .

right?

Not for yours or mine maybe, but for this one?

Hi Steve. It was an Ibanez with exactly that issue that drove me out of archtops as performing guitars 25 years ago. And you're right: with some effort you can make those guitars behave but all it took for me was one really wretched night of being completely unable to control it to convince me that I just did't want to keep wrestling with that particular demon. It took another 22 years to be willing to give it another try.
 




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