Why No Polyphonic Pitch Shifting in Helix?

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by tochiro, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. germanicus

    germanicus Member

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  2. Zakor

    Zakor Member

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    Hear ya but love the simplicity of only haveing only one box to deal with. Guitar/Helix/Tube Amp. I’m kind of on a bit of a personal challenge to reduce extra stuff and have gradually phased out all of my other pedals since buying a Helix about half a year ago. I’m not even bothering with 4CM some of the time. Something so great about less stuff. At this point the only things I am really missing are a polyphonic octave up/down(POG, OC-3), an instant response strobe tuner( Turbo turner - but with a different tuner in HX Stomp I’m hopeful this may arrive), and a TWO button looper( Play/Rec/Overdub & Stop/Undo).

    If polyphony wasn’t on the way I would buy a dedicated pedal...but then I would be back to another power supply/patch cable and would be tempted to add back the tuner, RC-3, and an extra expression pedal. Since it’s coming I’m waiting for it, hopefully, not for too long. It would be nice to know an approximate timeline as if it is a long way off it would be worth it to me to go buy something dedicated. If it’s coming soon there is no need for me to spend the cash & start down the dark path of adding more stuff.

    Sadly, that being said, Line 6 are walking a delicate path with letting people know something is in the works without setting expectations. Until things are nearly set in stone I assume there will be no hint of timeline. ...And ‘when it’s done’ is no fun to hear either... Sure would be nice to get a hint though.
     
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  3. tochiro

    tochiro Member

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    Yes and another thing that does not sound too good is that this feature of a polyphonic FX ala EHX Pog has been requested for years. It was already requested soon after I bought my first HD500 8 years ago. So I'm not too hopeful there...
     
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  4. MIJLOVER

    MIJLOVER Member

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    Well a stark difference would be that Line 6 have stated that they a) hired a team of experts in this field and b) that it is coming for Helix.

    Don't think POD HD could handle poly pitch. Don't give up hope ;)
     
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  5. hugbot

    hugbot Member

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    I'm curious what exactly it takes to make a polyphonic pitch shifted work on a technical level. I mean with a monophonic pitch I guess you just chop up the incoming signal and resample it at a higher/lower speed right? For poly I have no idea what the math would look like though.

    The POG warbles a bit so even it isn't totally exact. And I hear artifacts on the digitrch drop when it gets below -4 too.
     
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  6. tochiro

    tochiro Member

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    EHX Pog was released in 2005 so I guess the code behind it must not be that complex in 2018 standards...
     
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  7. mattball826

    mattball826 Member

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    For detuning, I used to take 5 guitars to my mod rock shows. My co player in that band bought a LP everyone hates. I bought a cheaper PRS and put a Tronical sys on it. Now I can go from SOAD, to Tool, to STP and others easily.

    Pitch it's either a Whammy pedal or Whammy DT
     
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  8. bdrepko

    bdrepko Supporting Member

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    Nobody can do polyphonic pitch shifter like Digitech. At least at this point in time.
     
  9. gtr37

    gtr37 Member

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    Perhaps that’s some of the guys L6 hired before the
    Digitech reorg announcement
     
  10. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    When I think of polyphonic; I think of 3 different "needs". For myself.

    1. Straight down tuning for alternate tuning without additional hardware or physical re-tuning of instrument.
    2. POG style processing where I can do octave stuff and organ tones.
    3. Poly processing to access guitar synthesis. Hopefully without additional hardware.:drink
     
  11. bdrepko

    bdrepko Supporting Member

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    I would like to see intelligent pitch shifting that has the quality of the pitch shifting in The Drop pedal. If you take any of the current modelers and listen to the pitch shifted signal while turning off the unaffected signal, they sound horrible.
     
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  12. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    I have a -1 pitch block in the my metal presets in the Helix. It does decent in a mix (and slammed into a dirty as heck amp). On it's own; you can hear a little warble. -2 is ok in a mix but more noticeable imo.
     
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  13. WiresDream

    WiresDream Member

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    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...i57j69i60l2.7079j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
     
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  14. bdrepko

    bdrepko Supporting Member

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    I am talking more intelligent harmony. Maybe technology is just not at the point where if you listen to the straight shifted signal that it actually has the quality near that of the unaffected signal.
     
  15. kennywiegman

    kennywiegman Member

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    Tie it in to my Variax and I would be pretty excited.
    That is all...
     
  16. Digital Igloo

    Digital Igloo Member

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    Not a DSP engineer, but our guys have to basically come up with a whole new way of doing things, as the polyphonic pitch algorithms they've developed in the past are not ours. We acquired the brain trust, not the tech. And Line 6 absolutely, positively respects others' IP.
     
  17. Zakor

    Zakor Member

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    Glad it is a “have to” but wish it was a “had to”. ;)
     
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  18. burningyen

    burningyen Vendor

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    The gaps relative to Helix's competition:
    • Clean transposition (a la the Drop).
    • Custom scales (a la Fractal and Kemper).
    • Formant shifting (a la Kemper).

    The next step, which I don't expect the Helix or any other current gen unit to be able to handle:
    • Custom scales+polyphony (imagine playing an E major chord and having it shifted down to a C minor chord ... I think Melodyne can do stuff like this)
    I'd be more excited about a solution that's not tied to my Variax.
     
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  19. kennywiegman

    kennywiegman Member

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    I don't hate playing my Variax at all. Plus I just bought my Variax and I don't wanna be someone that bought the Variax at the end of it's life cycle and get stuck with unsupported gear.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  20. gtr37

    gtr37 Member

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    To be fair as good as the Fractal pitch stuff is I don’t think it beats Digitech for straight up drop tuning or whammy
     
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