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Why no TC möbius alike?

LewisYL

Member
Messages
110
There are 2 different multi delay pedals with TonePrintEditor (x4 and triple delay) that are like a stripped down timeline so why no modulation box? The tonepints are all there ready with the corona chorus, helix phaser etc... Other than the source audio stuff there doesn't seem to be much between the price points of the mooer multi mod pedal and the möbius.
 

Super Locrian

Member
Messages
1,507
Maybe TC fears that a multi-modulation pedal will hurt the sales of their individual effects. I am sure they'll do it anyway at some point, seems like a natural evolution of the toneprint concept.
 

SinglecutGuy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,773
If there's one thing TC has proven, it's that they don't give a sh*t about what we want. We've been asking for an expanded X4 and X2 series for years.. Instead we got a dozen budget pedals.

:hide2
Maybe those budget pedals (which are basically re-housed Behringer pedals) will pay for the R&D to build your other requests.
 

coltonius

Señor Member
Messages
13,260
Maybe those budget pedals (which are basically re-housed Behringer pedals) will pay for the R&D to build your other requests.
Just curious, what kind of research and development is there to do? TC has plenty mod algorithms; they also have an X4 and an X2 format.

A multi-mod pedal would have taken less effort than rebranding a dozen Behringer turds. ;)
 

SinglecutGuy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,773
Just curious, what kind of research and development is there to do? TC has plenty mod algorithms; they also have an X4 and an X2 format.

A multi-mod pedal would have taken less effort than rebranding a dozen Behringer turds. ;)
Ya never know... that's all I'm sayin.
 

minty901

Member
Messages
2,124
their dreamscape pedal is a fairly good attempt but doesnt have phaser. the valeton multimod and nux mod core are the ones to beat for me. i wouldnt care for an x2 or x4-sized one but maybe i would if i was gigging and needed presets.
 

Robleishman

Member
Messages
723
If there's one thing TC has proven, it's that they don't give a sh*t about what we want. We've been asking for an expanded X4 and X2 series for years.. Instead we got a dozen budget pedals.

:hide2
This.

The way they walked away from the g-system proved to me that their business model is cheap, single function pedals for the low end market.

I'm sure it makes them money, good for them.
 

MattLeFevers

Member
Messages
2,046
I'm not a pedal designer so granted I have no idea what I'm talking about but the one point of difference between some kind of Mobius multi-fx box and the Flashback X4 is that the Flashback is just one pedal expanded out to four slots, whereas their mod pedals are all presumably separate algorithms, engines, whatever.

It could be that there are challenges to fitting the guts of a Vortex / Helix / Corona / Viscous / etc. all into one pedal that are different than making one Flashback with a lot of presets. Just to play devil's advocate.
 

TheRealDeal

Member
Messages
1,701
If there's one thing TC has proven, it's that they don't give a sh*t about what we want. We've been asking for an expanded X4 and X2 series for years.. Instead we got a dozen budget pedals.

:hide2

preach it! clearly tgp does not represent ALL gear heads...however the ideas that have presented as a "wish list" are amazing ideas! you are right that the x2 and the x4 pedals would sell sooo well. tc...get a clue
 

LewisYL

Member
Messages
110
I'm not a pedal designer so granted I have no idea what I'm talking about but the one point of difference between some kind of Mobius multi-fx box and the Flashback X4 is that the Flashback is just one pedal expanded out to four slots, whereas their mod pedals are all presumably separate algorithms, engines, whatever.

It could be that there are challenges to fitting the guts of a Vortex / Helix / Corona / Viscous / etc. all into one pedal that are different than making one Flashback with a lot of presets. Just to play devil's advocate.
I'm no designer either but I imagine that the guts are very similar and that it's all in the programming, take the new mod boxes from source audio, they can run the algos from any of the others. In any case, if they can fit the guts in the mini pedals they should be able to fit them in the x4 box.
 

LewisYL

Member
Messages
110
Thinking about this, TC themselves have suggested that if you set a delay in the flashback to 0ms single repeat and killdry then add chorus to that you have a chorus pedal basically. Maybe the same could be done for other mods so another flashback x4 or triple delay would do what I want anyway.
 

danbond

Member
Messages
647
Maybe those budget pedals (which are basically re-housed Behringer pedals)
I kind of have to step in here.

What do you mean by this? The pedals are demonstrably different in many fundemental ways (topjacks, case, switch) and theres no PCB gut shots that suggest they are in anyway the same.

It's a total reach to claim they are "basically re-housed behringer"...despite the fact that people have been crying out for Behringer to re-house their line anyway because so many of them sound totally fine.
 

MattLeFevers

Member
Messages
2,046
I'm no designer either but I imagine that the guts are very similar and that it's all in the programming, take the new mod boxes from source audio, they can run the algos from any of the others. In any case, if they can fit the guts in the mini pedals they should be able to fit them in the x4 box.
That's true about the mini pedals, that X4 sized box is enormous. You could probably just physically glue together all four or five of their mini pedals and it'd still be way smaller than a Flashback X4, haha.

The Source Audio One series both proves and disproves my point because there are the three that can run each other's algos and then there's the Tremolo which can't, so there are apparently fundamental hardware limits to what can share presets with what.

Ultimately I wouldn't be the target audience for a big TC thing anyway as I'm already quite happy with my Source Audio Orbital, but I am a fan of TC's stuff so I find these thought experiments interesting regardless. :)
 

MattLeFevers

Member
Messages
2,046
Thinking about this, TC themselves have suggested that if you set a delay in the flashback to 0ms single repeat and killdry then add chorus to that you have a chorus pedal basically. Maybe the same could be done for other mods so another flashback x4 or triple delay would do what I want anyway.
The chorus thing using a Flashback works great, until I bought a chorus pedal that was how I always got the job done. It sounds really nice actually.

I think there might be a way to access a flanger in a similar way within the TonePrint Editor, but I don't recall for sure. If there's any other modulation stuff you can do to the Flashback I'm not aware of it.
 

Robleishman

Member
Messages
723
I kind of have to step in here.

What do you mean by this? The pedals are demonstrably different in many fundemental ways (topjacks, case, switch) and theres no PCB gut shots that suggest they are in anyway the same.

It's a total reach to claim they are "basically re-housed behringer"...despite the fact that people have been crying out for Behringer to re-house their line anyway because so many of them sound totally fine.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...-and-new-design.1756246/page-12#post-22870625
 

LewisYL

Member
Messages
110
Ultimately I wouldn't be the target audience for a big TC thing anyway as I'm already quite happy with my Source Audio Orbital, but I am a fan of TC's stuff so I find these thought experiments interesting regardless. :)
If the orbital was 3 instead of 2 presets I would do the same thing. Maybe I should just glue the mini pedals together!
 

coltonius

Señor Member
Messages
13,260
no. that's like saying you need 4 different smart phones for calling texting browsing apps. it's a piece of cake for them to make a multi mod.

they do it because people like me buy multiple tc pedals.

i'm not complaining. we have so much choice for so little money & yet people still find things to complain about. boss pedals cost $100 20 years ago. boss pedals are still $100 now. stop whining people.
This post started off so well.. But then you had to go and ruin it with a white knight attempt!

If the orbital was 3 instead of 2 presets I would do the same thing. Maybe I should just glue the mini pedals together!
Or send them to JHS for a rehouse.

:hide
 

108

Member
Messages
2,429
If TC did something like Neunaber where an effect of your choice could be loaded into a pedal, particularly an X4 format, then I would likely buy two of those. I doubt this would happen since it could render much of their products obsolete unless it was unreasonably priced, but it's a nice dream.

If they do an X4 along the lines of Möbius or MM4, it'll be on my board in an instant. Give me four footswitches to assign whichever modulation I want.
 

SinglecutGuy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,773
I kind of have to step in here.

What do you mean by this? The pedals are demonstrably different in many fundemental ways (topjacks, case, switch) and theres no PCB gut shots that suggest they are in anyway the same.

It's a total reach to claim they are "basically re-housed behringer"...despite the fact that people have been crying out for Behringer to re-house their line anyway because so many of them sound totally fine.
Hey guys,

Just wanted to give a little more insight into the design of these pedals. Most of them are indeed based on some of the old Behringer pedals, but it is incorrect to say that it's a rebranding or re-housing. I gave the Behringer pedals a listen over a year ago, and truly though a lot of them sounded really good. From there the idea formed that with some work they could form the basis for a new cheaper product line... something I (and our dealers) have been wanted for years.

So here is the skinny on what has been changed from the original pedals. As you can hopefully tell, this has in now way been a quick copy/paste job... quite the contrary! The TC team in Denmark made a whole new mechanic design. We designed new mainboards to support true bypass. All the pedals have changes to their original circuits (both component and signal flow) to change the tone, add or remove knobs or switches, remove unwanted noise, etc.

In essence we've diligently gone over every single pedal and changed the things necessary to make them work and sound the way we wanted them to.
Re-housed may have been an overstep. However, despite what others have taken from Tor's posting, I took it as a company trying to make more of something than what it actually is. I've watched countless PR and Marketing moves from MI Manufacturers like this, where in essence, the "change" was mainly a visual, and a couple internal tweaks to satisfy that "something" was changed to eliminate the accusations of just 'same guts new look'. TC didn't spend a ton of time doing R&D on that entire line of pedals. They were handed a complete line that was already made for them by Behringer, and told to tweak it enough to resell it as something completely new. "Changing a few things here and there to make it look different" is what I truly take from their explanation of the new line.


REGARDLESS of what anyone's opinion is of those pedals, and what is or isn't different about them than the Behringer line, I am going out on a limb here in saying that TC didn't spend a ton of time and resources to put these pedals on the shelves. They were handed something that was already done, tweaked it a little, and now they're selling them as a whole new line. That's a great opportunity for them, and hopefully it pays for some cool things in the future.
 






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