Why the copyright trolls have won YouTube

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by TonePilot, May 27, 2020.

  1. TonePilot

    TonePilot Supporting Member

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    I’m waiting for the music industry version of Minority Report where EMI and Warner sue musicians for copyright infringement on songs their artists will write in the future.
     
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  2. JPH118

    JPH118 Member

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    They don’t own the bass part ad infinitum, but whomever owns the master tapes owns the embodiment of that bass performance. This might be the songwriter, or might be the label (in most cases). Ideally, the bassist was paid for his time and holds no claim beyond that. If he/she performed it expecting something else, they need to work that out beforehand.

    If it ends up being a one-in-a-million “Under Pressure”-style bassline, then the bassist may have recourse at a later date, as a signature riff like that might prove to be more identifiable than anything else in the tune. Most of the time, that would constitute a songwriter credit.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  3. Chris Scott

    Chris Scott Member

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    If I may, let me also add that probably (at least imo) half of the guitar players back then started out on some of the most abysmal excuses for a playable instrument - crap knock-offs, with action measured in fathoms being the norm.

    ...and yet, they went at it...hard. People find a way when they're motivated, when they have a vision, and nuthin's gonna stop them.
     
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  4. Chris Scott

    Chris Scott Member

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    I can only imagine...I didn't watch it, because somehow all the info I needed was already there.:D
     
  5. JPH118

    JPH118 Member

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    you can go back even further to the Wrecking Crew musicians who helped make countless albums sound amazing for decades. You can even look at sound engineers who edited tape to make composite recordings sound seamless... they’re not getting songwriting credit either, but are arguably contributing to it just as much. All of those people know their value, and are/were paid well for it, and received much more work due to it. I think the most successful knew how to play their hands effectively.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  6. tiktok

    tiktok Supporting Member

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    I think modern combo musicians, by and large, still learn things by listening to recordings over and over. And YT pretty much facilitates that, by allowing the rights holders to set up official channels where they receive the compensation for the streams, and the ability to take down offenders (if they've got the resources, which major labels, who generate the bulk of the material that cover bands want to learn, do).

    Beato's case is different from that, ditto for poor Leland Sklar.
     
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  7. Cross topper

    Cross topper Member

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    Can’t tell if this serious or not
    :p:p:p:mad::p:p:p
     
  8. peter_heijnen

    peter_heijnen Member

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    It's not the recording, it's the busines guys. As it is always the busines guys.
     
  9. peter_heijnen

    peter_heijnen Member

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    Nobody buys sheets. Musicians write their own sheets or write their own arrangements. And believe me, modern 'combo musicians' as you call them can read good enough to do the job. And drummers, actually they read better than guitarists.
     
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  10. peter_heijnen

    peter_heijnen Member

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    They own any part that you agreed upon to play and what you're paid for. It's really very simple. Besides that writing a bass part for a song is really not the same as writing the song. The songwriter is the architect, the bassplayer then is contracted to build the basement under the house that the architect designed.
     
  11. chrisjnyc

    chrisjnyc Supporting Member

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    Seems like a lot of guys here dont understand how fair use works, and how you can use copyrighted songs "for educational purposes, news reporting, and other informational context without payment or permission."

    Also, a few questions...

    1. Why not take your music clip videos off youtube and stream it from another site?
    2. Has anyone tried to fight the blockers in court? Why not setup a new YT channel and post something that will likely get blocked. If you dont have years worth of content to lose, why not take a swing in court?
     
  12. tktk

    tktk Member

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    The point is how he has made his reputation and all that, not promoting products.
    There's no way he gets nothing in return by making basically just by playing someones' music. He gets subs, which is HUGE and most important thing for a youtuber. Why do you think he could interview those celebrities in music industry? Because he had enough subs for convincing those guys to worth taking time for him and promote themselves. Still Pat Metheny doesn't care about his channel is something he complains all the time. Pat is his hero and asking for his management team to interview many times. Then Pat did an interview with someone probably had some connection who had a couple hundreds subs or so, and he was completely pissed. lol
    He used to explain his theory videos didn't get many views, tell people to post his videos on reddit, and complain how FB ad was useless, etc. What he wanted was subs so that he could promote his products and not have to rely on income from youtube. And his conclusion was to make those clickbaity video series based off of copyrighted materials. I mean What Makes~ series doesn't explain what actually makes the song great. He just plays stems and "Listen how great this bass line is", "Oh, what a killin' drum fills", etc. That's not what makes it great.
    And have you noticed that in every video he emphasizes on importance of listening to intervals all the time? That's because his main product is ear training app.
    He's a smart guy and it's all his strategy.
     
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  13. griggsterr

    griggsterr Supporting Member

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    OK, I'm seeing by your profile it says Amsterdam.
    It may be so in Amsterdam. I have run 3 of th
    I wish I had that kind of background.
    My family was so un musical it hurts to think about it.
    When we would attend church sometimes as a kid, I realized that people clapping on the beat was something my mother didn't understand. She would sing and just stand there clapping away completely oblivious that she was not even remotely connected to the beat of the song. My brother could usually hit about 3 of the notes in any melody maybe only 2
     
  14. Cross topper

    Cross topper Member

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    Years and years worth.......:p
     
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  15. Scary Uncle G.

    Scary Uncle G. Member

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    That’s the one thing I find humorous about my church. Apparently Lutherans have no idea of the concept of the “backbeat” and insist on clapping on the “one” and the “three.”:)
     
  16. A-Bone

    A-Bone Montonero, MOY, Multitudes Gold Supporting Member

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    What constitutes "fair use" is often complicated in practice -- and fair use is an affirmative defense.
     
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  17. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    I used to feel naughty about making a cassette for a friend. How far we’ve come.
     
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  18. -sku-

    -sku- Member

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    While I agree that he does care about his subscribers, he does care about people buying his stuff and his WMTSG content is not as exhaustive as they could be I still think that this is a an oversimplification of what this guy does.
    He has more than 700 videos out of which about 90 are based on copyrighted material but all of them are more or less educational material. Those are thousands of hours of work that will directly pay the IP owners without them having to do anything. Yes, it is true that he advertises his stuff at the beginning of his videos but that may or may not make people buy his book or ear training course. So in the end the guy offers free views and ads to some people by investing many hours of work in a gamble that may not benefit him in the end.
    He is not just playing those songs, he works full time to give people some value - whatever that may mean to you - and the IP owners some money.
    So imo the owners get paid, people might find out about some cool band they didn't know and also get some knowledge. And yeah, if he's lucky some people will subscribe, some will donate and some of them will buy his stuff.
    That being said, his WMTSG have ten times more views than all the rest of his videos combined so there's that. People are what they are so it's smart of him to capitalize on those if it makes sense and after all he doesn't do anything illegal.
    I get why some people can be judgemental but what I absolutely don't get is why a company would block such content when it's basically free money for them.
     
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  19. RobDaglish

    RobDaglish Member

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    Shurely on a site such as this, “Hey, You! Get off of my cloud!” Would be more appropriate

    Having started playing piano at around 6, then moving to clarinet at 11, I had no choice but to read music. It’s always struck me as odd how few guitarists actually can read. Round here, there are a couple of dozen really good guitarists, who people will listen to belting out all sorts of hits in a club on an evening and think “wow, they’re good”, and about two who can read well enough to play in a show orchestra. I don’t understand why it seems to be such an ‘optional extra’ for guitar when it’s so necessary for say the flute. Incidentally, this is why I get asked to play bass for shows - not because I’m a better bassist (I’m shockingly bad) - but simply MDs know they can hand me a book full of dots that match what everyone is doing, and I’ll play those dots, and only those dots.

    Well now you’ve put the idea in their heads. Thanks for that...
     
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  20. tktk

    tktk Member

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    Yeah, I agree on the most what you say here, but my point was for him to keep making the popular video series is purely for his own business. Even if he doesn't get a penny from the videos itself he gets subs which become money. He knows how it works. If those videos actually get him only views and subs and not the buyers of his products he will stop making them.
    I believe demonetization on those videos is fair for the companies and artists, but never could understand why they have to block it. It's most likely the algorithm is oversimplified and catch anything includes a portion of melody, which is something they absolutely need to fix.
    So yeah, in the end we have the same opinion I assume. Thanks.
     
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