Will there be an Eclipse V5 release?

Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by rsm, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. rsm

    rsm Member

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    ...or an updated Eclipse hardware unit?

    Won't be able to purchase an Eclipse until sometime next year, just curious on rumors or info...

    I'm usually good at buying something at the end of the product cycle only to have a new/improved version released shortly after my purchase
     
  2. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Eclipse updates are simply software. Any Eclipse can use any new OS.
    No need to worry about it.
    If they are going to build a new unit? Who knows... personally I don't think so.
     
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  3. whoismarykelly

    whoismarykelly Oh look! This is a thing I can change! Supporting Member

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    The Eclipse was the "affordable" Eventide option before the stompboxes came along. Now with the H9 and all the Factor pedals the Eclipse doesn't have as much of a market. The Eclipse has way more power of course but its a middle ground that probably doesn't move many units.
     
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  4. rsm

    rsm Member

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    Regarding V5, yes it's just software; I'm wondering if they're going to add/improve the software? IIRC, V4 was released a few years or several years ago.
     
  5. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

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    I doubt that Eventide will do this, but I'm not sure that it's even required. While it might be nice to have all of the Space and H9 algorithms added to the preset list, I'm not sure what else would be done. The OS is decently stable (there are a few annoying bugs) and there building blocks to create the remaining Factor stuff is there.

    For what it's worth, the Eclipse is really great. If you can find one at a decent price, I think you'll find yourself playing with sounds for a long, long time. I talk a lot about getting a bigger Eventide (I have two Eclipses), but I'm quite fortunate with what I have and should probably put myself in check.
     
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  6. mrwolf

    mrwolf Member

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    Does the Eclipse with all this "processing power" instantly switch presets or is there an audible drop out ?
     
  7. AnalogKid85

    AnalogKid85 Supporting Member

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    No, because it uses all that processing power for better FX ;)

    You can certainly do some spillover things between the engines, if you know how though...
     
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  8. mrwolf

    mrwolf Member

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    I just want a rack fx that does great reverbs and delays, nothing else, and does seemless patch changes for live use.
    Impossible it seems.
     
  9. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    You can do it... and not patches changes are required. Just change your delays and reverb settings within the current preset...
     
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  10. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    OR...
    read the manual about the X-FADE feature.
    You can use X-FADE_able algorithms, those fitting a single fx engine, which are capable of instant switching. You can even set a x-fade time between two x-fadeable presets to get a more elegant way to transition from a preset to another.
    There are several "multi-fx" algorithms that are cross-fadeable and offer delay/reverb or more:
    -182 TAPDLY+DIFFCHORUS
    3 taps delays (one for feedback) and modulated diffusor for reverb
    -183 CHORSDLYS+VERB8
    4 parallel moddelay and reverb (chorus/delays/reverb can be done together here)
    -184 MULTISHIFT+VERB8
    2 voice shifter with hicut filter in its feedback and reverb.
    You can use the shifters as delays, add detuning to them if you like.
    This one has a *VERY* particualr way shift modulation occurs: there is no LFO modulating the pitch by offset cents. It works with two percentage knobs (manualmod) you can use to manually sweep the shiters or simply set as you like.
    If the modulation amount is set to 5 cents and manualmods are set to 100%, each delay repeat will be +5 cents sharper. If you lower the manualmod you can get into some REAL molecular micropitch shifting (below 1 cent).
    The mamualmods percentages scale the mod.depth amounts up or down, in a static amplitude modulation style. You can't find this in any effect processor out there. Very unique sounds.
    -185 DIATONIC+VERB8
    2 voice diatonic shifters and reverb.
    -186 STEREO SHIFT+VERB8
    Stereo pitch shifter and reverb.
    -187 REVERSE+TAPS+VERB
    a revrse shifter into 3 taps delay into reverb8

    All of the above algorithms can be crossfaded.
    You can build presets with ONE of them and switch between those presets in seamless or elegant x-fade times.
    Or you can build presets with two of them, set to very different parameters values and use MIDI to control input levels (SEND) so that you can switch from a delay/reverb sound to a different dela/reverb sound... with 0 time switching.
    You won't change presets here, just x-mix between two versions in the same preset. This can be done with ANY two algortihm, fitting in a preset and routed in parallel. Check the manual for routings.

    Lastly...
    you can use MIDI realtime control of parameters to change what you need to adjust on your delays/reverbs.
    Once you have your perfect delays in engine A and great reverb in engine B, you can use a footswitch to Tap Tempo your echoes and a couple of pedals or three to control other parameters, like delay feedback, reverb decay, levels.
    There is not much you really need to change from a delay to another or verb to another...

    As you see you have 3 different ways you can achieve what you asked for, provided all you need is delay/reverb from your machine.
    All work great.
     
  11. mrwolf

    mrwolf Member

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    Thank you for such a comprehensive answer.
    I'm a midi Neanderthal so if you're willing I'd like to try and understand your answers and then ask some questions but the future's not as bleak now.
     
  12. swinginguitar

    swinginguitar Member

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    I wish this were available in the H9 - on the micropitch alogrithms, even with feedback off, you can hear a little bit of LFO circular mod, which in essence makes it more like chorus. I've had much cheaper/lower quality units that did static detuning <shrug>
     
  13. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Like what?
     
  14. MarcoR

    MarcoR Member

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    Short story is, you'll need a midi controller that can send midi CC messages.

    I use all the approaches italo suggested and 90% of the time, I use a single preset/algorithm for my reverb and delay needs on the Eclipse. You can still approach it with a "preset" concept but the preset is now on your midi controller and not the processor.

    I use a Liquid Foot + 12+ controller where each preset on the controller sends multiple midi messages to multiple devices and all are instant and can have "spillover" if desired.
    For the Eclipse as an example, switch 1 of my controller sends CC messages to set the reverb level and decay to the desired amount I need for my basic clean sound (while also turning off delay and or modulation). When I click switch 2, it sends CC messages to change the reverb parameters to the desired level for my dirty sound, etc... Switch 3 may send CC messages to set the input level of a delay. All of this is utilizing a single preset on the Eclipse using two engines; one with a reverb, another with a delay.
    Now these presets (switches) on my controller are also sending messages to a PCM80, Switchblade, Amp Switcher, latching controllers to change channels on amps, RJM mini effects gizmo on pedalboard to toggle pedals and probably a few other things I'm forgetting.

    I found over the years when I was using just different presets (my old Intellifex comes to mind) many were very similar; just turning something on/off or changing levels, times, etc. Some devices had minimal lag between preset switches if both presets used the same algorithm where others would always reload the algorithm even if it was the same (Eventide Space) and the lag was intolerable. It was frustrating when you wanted seamless switching but it was a matter of changing my mentality; it's like pulling on a door that won't open because it's a push (there is a way to do what you want, it's just not what you think it is).

    Midi can seem daunting and most guitar players these days prefer the plug and play variety but inevitably you will want more control. It starts with finding and hopefully programming some presets you like, then getting them in order so you can access them from your controller. Then you realize you want preset 25 on switch 3 and you learn about preset mapping. Then you think it would be cool to control the delay level with an expression pedal and you start learning about control change messages. Eventually, you will want to control multiple things that may be beyond the limits of your midi controller and you expand to a controller that can send multiple PC and CC messages on every channel. That's when a whole new world of possibilities opens up...
     
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  15. swinginguitar

    swinginguitar Member

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    back in the day i had a boss ps-5 on my board .... it did a non-moving detune as well as a short pre-delay. lots of artifacts, but that premise is what i look for in a detune. the H9 always "swirls" a little bit and i haven't been able to dial it out.

    shoot - i even had a digitech 2101 (and one of the cheapo floor models when i was a kid) that did a nice detune

    as mentioned in my lexicon/kemper thread, i bought a couple of MX400s - detune is usable on that one as well.
     
  16. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Wait...
    maybe I haven't been clear in my description.
    Any detuner/pitch shifter does a static detuning. That's its basic nature.
    Some of them can use an LFO to sweep detuning up and down, adding more movement to the pitch.
    This one on Eclipse does something else!
    Because you set modulation as a percentage of the basic detuning, you can get some extremely fine micropitch shifting, below the single cent and in between cents.
    It's a higher definition effect.
     
  17. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    In the first description (only one x-fadeable algorithm in a preset) he would only need Progran Changes.
    But it's a bit of a waste as only 50% of the unit power is being used to allow for the cross-fade into the new preset, buffered by the other 50%. One may be happy with this, though.
    The other two methods are more elegant as they allow for blending more elaborate algorithms in a preset and variations of them. And yes... Control Changes will be required in these cases.
     
  18. mrwolf

    mrwolf Member

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    What's the easiest way to learn about using CC Messages ?
    I'm a bit of a technophobe, prefer to spend time practicing rather than programming but if I'm to invest in an Eclipse or similar (is the Eclipse the best for my basic needs of reverb and delays ?) then I might as well learn to utilise it.
     
  19. jaykay73

    jaykay73 Member

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    The easiest way? Just ask!

    There is nothing to fear about midi. Think of CC as an extension of PC. They usually control features WITHIN a preset rather than change presets. A control change message consists of 3 pieces of information:

    1. The midi channel
    2. The control change message (0 - 127)
    3. The control change value (0 - 127)

    Most instant access switches like Rocktron Midimate / All Access or Voodoo Lab GCX have "instant access" switches which will send a control change value of EITHER 0 for turning something "off" OR 127 for turning something on.

    So let's say you have a unit with a delay algortihm where you can stop or start delay modulation with a control change command. This is how you would set things up to add modulation to your delay while you're playing live...

    On your fx unit:

    1. Set the midi receive channel to any channel you desire - just make sure each of your units has its own individual midi receive channel for simplicity. For this example set this one to 13.
    2. Find out which cc message the unit uses to stop / start the modulation LFO. Some units have fixed or predetermined cc messages, on others YOU can choose the cc message. So choose one that suits you. For this example let's say the cc message is 25.

    On your floorboard, program an instant access switch for the following cc command:

    1. Midi channel 13
    2. CC message 25

    Now the first time you hit your instant access switch your controller will send out a CC message 25 with value 127 on midi channel 13. This will turn on delay modulation. The next time your foot presses the switch your controller will send out a cc message 25 with value 0 on midi channel 13. The IA switch simply toggles between 0 & 127 for simple on/off functions.

    That's the basics. More to follow.

    JK
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  20. jaykay73

    jaykay73 Member

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    Advanced level...

    Many units can receive cc values of 0 or 127 or anything in between. Eg PCM8x can receive cc values to control ANY parameter. But you need a more advanced midi controller to be able to send cc values other than just 0 or 127.

    Quick example. Let's say you have a chorus preset where you have one setting for clean tones and another for dirt and you like "less" chorusing on the dirt tones. Well make a program to decrease the volume level of the PCM by 3db and decrease the depth of the LFO by a small amount. This can be done with cc values between 0 & 127 and patching them to the required parameters.

    It's not difficult. But YOU need to decide what you want to control and how to control it and YOU need to RTFM of both the midi controller and the target fx device. So much freedom. Like when Windows first came out on PC and people got overwhelmed that THEY could control a computer in ways never seen before. But with time and hands on the machine things got accepted quickly and productivity increased enormously. Just like a midi controller connected to your rig and a bit a forethought and planning can make huge impact on your playing and live performance.

    JK
     

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