Will there be an Eclipse V5 release?

Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by rsm, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. mrwolf

    mrwolf Member

    Aug 3, 2017
    Absolutely brilliant explanations. Even I understood. Thank you.
  2. cbm

    cbm Silver Supporting Member

    Jan 24, 2010
    San Francisco Bay Area
    This has never been important to me, but the Orville can do this, for a lot of patches, but not all. Patches that can do this are indicated in the display. I assume the H8000 can do it with smaller patches as well.
  3. jaykay73

    jaykay73 Member

    Jan 28, 2014
    Not impossible - PCM80/81 does this flawlessly. BUT... the end user needs to set up his / her preset to taste. Don't rely on the factory presets to spoon feed you everything.

    looper309 likes this.
  4. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Mar 21, 2011
    If I remember correctly Orville doesn't do presets cross-fades. It was the 4000 series which did it.
    The 4000 used two DSPs in a dynamic way. Large presets would use both while small ones would only run on one chip. Pretty much an early "monolithic" way (H8000) in disguise. So presets running on single chip could cross fade.
    Orville didn't need that as one DSP is 4 times more powerful than a 4000 and the unit can run two presets at the same time... so one just needs to use the other preset while loading the next one in the unused DSP, ready for the next need.
    The H8000 doesn't do presets cross-fades too. Same as the Orville, with the added bonus of monolithic mode where the 2 DSPs consolidate as a very big one, running a single (monster) preset, about 80% larger than a single DSP preset.
    So on those machines the zero-latency presets switching is achieved in two ways:
    -using the 2 DSPs to load different presets and only use one at the time, routing audio to the next preset while muting and switching the previous one to the next one.
    -using the MIDI Virtual Racks Tweaks system, implemented in the H8000 but also available for the DSP7000/7500/Orville in my libraries.
    This is an elegant way by which you can store up to 10 "tweaks" inside a preset and recall each one with a single MIDI CC sending a different value. For instance, if Tweaks recalling is patched to MIDI CC #1, you need to send CC1 w/value1 to recall Tweak#1, CC1 w/value2 to recall Tweak#2 and so on. A preset may be expanded to a larger number of Tweaks, sure. Need a couple of dozens? Doable.
    What you need for the job here is a MIDI controller capable of being physically configured as 10 switches sending the same CC with a different value for each. So--- shop carefully.

    The PCM80/81 can do a similar thing though in a more limited way:
    -a max of 8 tweaks can be stored (pivot points)
    -a max of ten parameters can be controlled and they need to be shared by delays and reverb efx (on the Eventides you go much ahead in the amount of controlled parameters in a very elegant way: you control ONE single master parameter which remotes dozens of others!)
    -you have to be happy with the choice of algorithms for your delays and reverbs, so you have to know what are the pros and cons (limitations) in each of them to decide if this is the path to follow.
    For instance, the best tonal control for delays is achieved with the BandDelays, thanks to their low/hicut filters in the feedback path... but you have no modulation there.
    If you like the Glide delays... you have no feedback filters. The Chorus algorithm is probably the compromise as you get hicut filter and modulation... but DIFFUSION is shared with the reverb and this may be a limitation.
    In addition to this... reverbs have a fixed routing... so you have to live with the fact a reverb can be in series or parallel to your delays... and that doesn't always make it right. Last... is the delays/reverb algorithms pairing... which force you to use a specific type of delay/reverb in a structure. The DualFX card helps in solving some of these limitations, IF you can find one. You get the freedom to pair ANY delay to ANY reverb algorithm, to freely choose any type of routing between the delay/reverb structures but you will still have 8 tweaks stored in a preset and the filters/modulation work in the same way, even though you get an extra set of hicut/lowcut filter placed BEFORE the delay/reverb.
    So yes... you can have Glide and Plate together but you can't filter the delays feedbacks, or you can use MBand delays and Hall but you have no modulation in the delays. Lastly... all the 6 delays algorithms are now changed in 4 voice ones.
    So careful planning BEFORE you buy is required. You need to know what kind of delays you want, and reverbs... and check if possible.
    A MIDI controller with the same features as the one required for the Eventides is needed here too.

    So... overall...
    MIDI is needed for any choice. According to the chosen machine/approach to no latency switching, a careful evaluation of the MIDI controller is needed.

    Which method to avoid latency?
    Beside the elegance in any of them (you may not consider this aspect but I do... an elegant way is also smart and efficient in terms of DSP resources), you are looking for the same result:
    getting the very best sounding delays/reverbs with zero latency switching.
    You may want to ponder the cost of every choice vs. the possibilities you get from each.
    Most expensive = total freedom of delays/reverbs algorithms features, free routing choices, virtually unlimited tweaks, a lot of power for extra effects (you never know what's next)
    Mid expensive = still very good choice of delays/reverbs algorithms, free routing choices but a bit more limited, virtually unlimited presets switching
    Less expensive = limited choice of delays/reverbs, limited routing choices unless you find extra algorithms on a card, limited number of tweaks... so you need to check if it fits your needs
    In all cases PROGRAMMING is required. You can't skip this.

    Eclipse is probably the one that covers more possibilities with less efforts/money, if you are fine with the available algorithms. It won't require an advanced MIDI controller as the other choices.
    AnalogKid85 and looper309 like this.
  5. kowalski440

    kowalski440 Member

    May 18, 2015
    a banana republic run by an orange monkey
    I used to think the Eclipse was due for an update. To the point that I may have been a little asshole-ish about it. My bad.
    Then, I realized that I own one of the most insanely versatile effects processors in the world and it completely meets my needs. There is very little the Eclipse can't do and I don't think I have to say how much it beats up on pedals for reverb and delay algos. In the gear universe, the Eclipse is a fat galaxy full of comets, asteroids, bright stars and a few supernovas.
    4.5 years with mine and I'm still as happy as I was that first month. Dive deep. :aok
  6. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

    Feb 7, 2012
    Montreal, Canada
    It really is a great machine. I played with mine over the course of Sunday here and there. I loaded up a Diatonic preset that I made and sent that into some delays. With another Eclipse, I added a touch of reverb to this and it sounded crisp, clean, and the shifts were beautiful. This box is truly capable of some of the best sounds available. H8000's little brother packs a mean punch.
    kowalski440 likes this.
  7. markiv2290

    markiv2290 Member

    Jan 12, 2015
    Mirabel, Canada
    To me the added power, proper inputs (line levels, etc.) and overall better sound are worth it. The only let down for me anyways, is that you can't modify at will the core routing in presets which I needed for my particular application.
  8. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Mar 21, 2011


    the guy you mentioned just doesn't know how wrong he is.

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