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Will 'Vintage Modelers' ever be cool?

kleydj13

Member
Messages
1,607
Look at the delay market these days. Lots of them spend great effort trying to replicate old tape and analog delays that have imperfections, warbles, noise, and grain. Pristine digital delays have their place, but there is undeniable buzz surrounding old school sounds.

Do you think something similar might happen with the modeling units from the past 5-ish years?

I've spent a lot of time with the HD500 and now am enjoying a Zoom G3. They have some interesting characteristics that I often consider flaws. The "line 6 sheen" frequency emphasis or the Zoom's absurd gain ranges. The industry as a whole is pushing towards more realistic tone, response, and feel. That is awesome and there will always be a demand for that. But I also wonder if we will ever look back with fondness at 'vintage modelers' and consider many of their flaws to be desirable.
 

jlagrassa

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,375
I've got a Johnson J-Station probably well over 10 years old. I still use it with my computer for learning tunes... it actually sounds very good!
 

Will Chen

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,698
It will absolutely happen at some point, but not across the board. Nostalgia and scarcity will drive it. Always does. You still see a demand for some older Eventide units, though of course at significant discounts. There is already a growing group of fans around some digital delay units from the 80's. All it would take is some alternative hipster artist to promote use of some old unit to set the market afire. Look at the Whammy I prices...
 

rbrogan

Member
Messages
1,215
10 years from now, musician extraordinaire Marty McHoverboard is in the studio with his up and coming indie band, Biff and the Dump Truck Divers, recording their new single. The dated sounds of the early/mid 2000's are coming back in vogue. Looking for new inspiration, he's rummaging around his burnt out old uncle's stash of music gear and comes across an old beat up, SoAndSo modeler. He takes it to the studio to practice, stumbles upon a fizzy, high gain distortion setting with a cold, sterile delay, and a clangy, lifeless reverb. Its perfect for the Single!

Pitchfork gives the album an 8.7, sells like hotcakes, everybody tries to copy that amazing guitar riff sound on the second chorus, but nothing ever sounds "digital" enough to recreate it. Premier Guitar interviews Marty McHoverboard about the gear he used to record and also perform that song live. Marty reveals his secret weapon to be SoAndSo crappy, old modeler from 2002, and that he owns 4 of them in case any break.

Prices on ebay triple over night, every one trys to add one to their pedalboard. They become super rare. Strymon Engineering models the modeler using advanced Impulse Response Technology (27 speculative threads are generated on whether this will actually be to replicate those Biff and The Dump Truck Divers tones on TGP), and releases a pedal called the Dirty Diver, that replicates all of the original sounds, and is 40% smaller than the original.

Guy on TGP creates thread, "Dirty Diver is Marty McHoverboard in a Box!!", which generates 20 pages of arguments about whether the Dirty Diver accurately captures the "dynamics, clanginess, and subtle fizz" of the original, vintage algorithms in 4 hours. Half of the TGP'ers claim that it's dead on, the other half say it's 75% there, and they're not giving up their SoAndSo Modeler anytime soon. 3 guys complain about the demo hologram's quality compressing the 3D surround audio to much to tell what it really sounds like, and that the playing kind of sucked too.

Guy on TGP creates thread, "What's the big deal with the SoAndSo Modelers?", which generates 150 responses in an hour, and get's locked because of all the trolls.
 

lspaulsp

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
5,837
I agree with Will. Someone will have to say they did their whole tour with a POD 2.0.

I remember when people would pay you to take a Gretch guitar because you darn sure couldn't sell one. There was a guitar store full of them inside the loop off Westhimer in Houston. They went from store status to STAR status as soon as Brian Setzer and the Stray Cats hit with Stray Cat Strut/Stomp or whatever it was. There they went from $250 to $1250 to $2250.....................................................but it is going to be an individual item thing.
 

stratzrus

Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
21,605
I remember when people would pay you to take a Gretch guitar because you darn sure couldn't sell one. There was a guitar store full of them inside the loop off Westhimer in Houston. They went from store status to STAR status as soon as Brian Setzer and the Stray Cats hit with Stray Cat Strut/Stomp or whatever it was. There they went from $250 to $1250 to $2250.....................................................but it is going to be an individual item thing.
:agree

If someone becomes a superstar in 2025 and was using an Axe FX Standard with firmware v.11 because he was on a limited budget they will suddenly become extremely collectable for someone who wants to cop those exact tones.

Short of something like that it's a crapshoot.
 

camstudio

Member
Messages
667
I think they will at some point. They all sound different in one way or another. I defy anyone to say they don't miss something off something they used to have.
 

MKB

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,422
I'll have to disagree with most of you. There are some areas of technology where improvements in hardware and how it relates to the device's primary function render older products hopelessly obsolete. For example, there are few people interested in actually using a TRS-80 Model I computer, or a Commodore 64. Since the focus of the product is to run software, not only performing a specific function but presenting a UI to the user, the older products are mostly useless as they cannot run the new software, and the functionality and usefulness of newer hardware and software are orders of magnitude greater than the older stuff. Would anyone choose Lotus on a Apple II over Excel on a Centrino?? Or for that matter Texture on a Commodore 64 instead of Cakewalk on a Pentium 4?

Also in this category are computer monitors. Who would use an Apple II 10" green screen over a new Samsung 22" LED LCD? Nobody I'd think.

In this way, older modelers like the Behringer V-Amp and earlier Pod's can be made to work, but still do not sound nearly as good as a HD. I can't think of a single thing the old technology does better than the new, other than cost less used. The older modelers may get some collectibility on nostalgia alone, or to copy some tone on an old record where it was used to record tracks, but never as it has sonic benefits in actually copying analog amps. The new stuff just works better.
 

drock2k1

Member
Messages
798
10 years from now, musician extraordinaire Marty McHoverboard is in the studio with his up and coming indie band, Biff and the Dump Truck Divers, recording their new single. The dated sounds of the early/mid 2000's are coming back in vogue. Looking for new inspiration, he's rummaging around his burnt out old uncle's stash of music gear and comes across an old beat up, SoAndSo modeler. He takes it to the studio to practice, stumbles upon a fizzy, high gain distortion setting with a cold, sterile delay, and a clangy, lifeless reverb. Its perfect for the Single!

Pitchfork gives the album an 8.7, sells like hotcakes, everybody tries to copy that amazing guitar riff sound on the second chorus, but nothing ever sounds "digital" enough to recreate it. Premier Guitar interviews Marty McHoverboard about the gear he used to record and also perform that song live. Marty reveals his secret weapon to be SoAndSo crappy, old modeler from 2002, and that he owns 4 of them in case any break.

Prices on ebay triple over night, every one trys to add one to their pedalboard. They become super rare. Strymon Engineering models the modeler using advanced Impulse Response Technology (27 speculative threads are generated on whether this will actually be to replicate those Biff and The Dump Truck Divers tones on TGP), and releases a pedal called the Dirty Diver, that replicates all of the original sounds, and is 40% smaller than the original.

Guy on TGP creates thread, "Dirty Diver is Marty McHoverboard in a Box!!", which generates 20 pages of arguments about whether the Dirty Diver accurately captures the "dynamics, clanginess, and subtle fizz" of the original, vintage algorithms in 4 hours. Half of the TGP'ers claim that it's dead on, the other half say it's 75% there, and they're not giving up their SoAndSo Modeler anytime soon. 3 guys complain about the demo hologram's quality compressing the 3D surround audio to much to tell what it really sounds like, and that the playing kind of sucked too.

Guy on TGP creates thread, "What's the big deal with the SoAndSo Modelers?", which generates 150 responses in an hour, and get's locked because of all the trolls.
This made my day.
 

Baba

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,236
I'll have to disagree with most of you. There are some areas of technology where improvements in hardware and how it relates to the device's primary function render older products hopelessly obsolete. For example, there are few people interested in actually using a TRS-80 Model I computer, or a Commodore 64. Since the focus of the product is to run software, not only performing a specific function but presenting a UI to the user, the older products are mostly useless as they cannot run the new software, and the functionality and usefulness of newer hardware and software are orders of magnitude greater than the older stuff. Would anyone choose Lotus on a Apple II over Excel on a Centrino?? Or for that matter Texture on a Commodore 64 instead of Cakewalk on a Pentium 4?

Also in this category are computer monitors. Who would use an Apple II 10" green screen over a new Samsung 22" LED LCD? Nobody I'd think.

In this way, older modelers like the Behringer V-Amp and earlier Pod's can be made to work, but still do not sound nearly as good as a HD. I can't think of a single thing the old technology does better than the new, other than cost less used. The older modelers may get some collectibility on nostalgia alone, or to copy some tone on an old record where it was used to record tracks, but never as it has sonic benefits in actually copying analog amps. The new stuff just works better.
I agree with this.
 

teemuk

Member
Messages
3,205
I'll have to disagree with most of you.
And I have to disagree with you. Vintage synths / drum modelers like Roland TR-808 are realism and functionality -wise surpassed by thousands of more modern pieces of gear, yet people still keep getting back to them for their unique, classic tone.

Need I remind about tube amps. Amp's function is to amplify, does it stop that function when it ages? Did any modeling unit actually replace its predecessor with 100% same functionality and tone?

And as for your software analogy, I personally revert to running emulators on my PC just to be able to run some old software from the prehistoric times. Also, in certain occasions I have to use old software to support older hardware, like a high quality soundcard. Good software / hardware doesn't stop being useful when it ages, unfortunately advancing technology usually just stops supporting it.
 

Space Jazzer

Member
Messages
1,447
10 years from now, musician extraordinaire Marty McHoverboard is in the studio with his up and coming indie band, Biff and the Dump Truck Divers, recording their new single. The dated sounds of the early/mid 2000's are coming back in vogue. Looking for new inspiration, he's rummaging around his burnt out old uncle's stash of music gear and comes across an old beat up, SoAndSo modeler. He takes it to the studio to practice, stumbles upon a fizzy, high gain distortion setting with a cold, sterile delay, and a clangy, lifeless reverb. Its perfect for the Single!

Pitchfork gives the album an 8.7, sells like hotcakes, everybody tries to copy that amazing guitar riff sound on the second chorus, but nothing ever sounds "digital" enough to recreate it. Premier Guitar interviews Marty McHoverboard about the gear he used to record and also perform that song live. Marty reveals his secret weapon to be SoAndSo crappy, old modeler from 2002, and that he owns 4 of them in case any break.

Prices on ebay triple over night, every one trys to add one to their pedalboard. They become super rare. Strymon Engineering models the modeler using advanced Impulse Response Technology (27 speculative threads are generated on whether this will actually be to replicate those Biff and The Dump Truck Divers tones on TGP), and releases a pedal called the Dirty Diver, that replicates all of the original sounds, and is 40% smaller than the original.

Guy on TGP creates thread, "Dirty Diver is Marty McHoverboard in a Box!!", which generates 20 pages of arguments about whether the Dirty Diver accurately captures the "dynamics, clanginess, and subtle fizz" of the original, vintage algorithms in 4 hours. Half of the TGP'ers claim that it's dead on, the other half say it's 75% there, and they're not giving up their SoAndSo Modeler anytime soon. 3 guys complain about the demo hologram's quality compressing the 3D surround audio to much to tell what it really sounds like, and that the playing kind of sucked too.

Guy on TGP creates thread, "What's the big deal with the SoAndSo Modelers?", which generates 150 responses in an hour, and get's locked because of all the trolls.
This WILL happen.

Only thing you forgot to mention is the substantial amount of boutique pedal builders that will pop up after they discover some ole' stash of Pocked Pods or V-Amps in the back of guitar shops, just to rehouse them in late 90's-looking plastic boxes and give them names like "The Computerizer", "Mr. Modeler" and "La Algorita".
 

teemuk

Member
Messages
3,205
And the new generation, who only bring a guitar and a cellphone with integrated computer to a gig, will sneer at the old farts who still use all those vintage AXE FX's and Kempers. :D
 

Space Jazzer

Member
Messages
1,447
And the new generation, who only bring a guitar and a cellphone with integrated computer to a gig, will sneer at the old farts who still use all those vintage AXE FX's and Kempers. :D
I guess those Axe-Fx and Kemper users will be the Tweed-covered tube amp users of the future...

"Shure, that cell-phone is practical. But nothing beats the ole' time digital mojo I get from my Axe-Fx... It's pure inspiration, man. They just don't build 'em like that anymore. The subtle fan noise, the dual color display. Man, I just love it..."
 

tstrahle

Member
Messages
380
I've used my Lexicon system, MPX- G2 into Signature 284, for thousands of tracks for TV, film and records. But still use amps, new and old, for lots of sessions too. I have three of the Lexicon setups. They sound great to me, but the real EL84s in the 284 help serious up the tone.
 




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