Word of caution for bands in So. Minnesota

[MikeNiteRail]

***This only really applies to bands playing in Southern Minnesota. I don't have much course of action other than to share my experience with other bands so they can avoid such a situation.


Beware of this club:

Prairie Saloon, Kasota, MN

I had an agreement printed out for $500 (***Edit: I have the e-mail agreement for $500) that was agreed on over the phone. When we got there he said $350 or we could leave. Well, I promised the guys in my band $100 each, so I told him we'd play three sets for $400 and tab or two for $350. I was willing to entertain the idea that there was a misunderstanding of some sorts. In fact, I tried emailing him the contract beforehand, but they kept bouncing back and I didn't follow-up with a call, so I was willing to try and reach a compromise that got my guys paid. However, I know that I wouldn't have played there for less than $400 considering we had to bring the PA. Again, I only took the stage since I promised my guys money and still had the chance to get it for them.

He said, three sets for $375 and if the till hits $1,200 we'd get $400 (so we agree to go on). He said that is average and should be no big deal. I said fine, but I wanted to see where things were at before the third set.

We finish set two and he says they're at $900 (so I know we'll be close to $1,200 at the end of the night), but we'll for sure get our $400 regardless because he really wants us to play another set. End of night he is at like $1,150, drunk, and only wanting to pay me $375. I tell him I spent around $50 on posters and Facebook ads and he didn't even hang half the posters he requested. He admits to doing nothing to plug the show accept hang the posters that Tuesday, even though he told me he would promote. I finally get him to write a sloppy check for $400 even though I repeatedly ask him to have someone else write it out.

The bank won't take the check. I call him Monday and he says he'll send a check for $400 immediately - no problem. I get the check the next day with a note saying he is only giving me $375 since he didn't hit $1,200 and that is what we agreed on.

So I pretty much lost $125. Nice. I would never have posted anything like this anywhere had it not been for the fact that he flat out lied on the phone yesterday about rewriting the check for $400 and then instantly sending me $375 with a note. He even made sure to cancel the other check.

 

[Gas-man]

Gotta love it.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[drgonzoguitar]

Great business we are in, huh?

 

[MikeNiteRail]

I passed this on to a couple of friends and they replied right away with problems like this from other clubs from just this summer. Ridiculous!

The one band had the power in the club go out so they shut down music for the evening and didn't pay them anything. On top of that, they had to pay for the lights and PA they rented for the night (these guys make well over a grand a show, so they aren't playing dive bars or anything)! It was the fourth time just this summer they had been ripped off from a club.

I don't necessarily want to boycott this place or anything, but I do feel that sharing the story and trying to focus on the facts of what happened is one of the only ways to get some satisfaction and help other bands avoid issues.

 

[bbarnard]

Just had a similar thing happen for a festival near here. Promoter advertised for a blues festival that was a "competition" festival that would result in future gig (at $350 if you won) plus some limited recording time AND there were also going to be headliners. Emailed him to ask if we could be a headliner. Got email back indicating that this was their first year so they had a limited budget and asking for price for two 90 minute sets for Friday night of the festival. Gave him a price that was a steep discount on our normal festival price. Got email back indicating that he was accepting our price. No word for a couple weeks so I email him asking him for more details on the gig. He emails back indicating and asking which night we'd prefer. Emailed him back that we wanted Friday as agreed to. Saw a post somewhere else indicating a different headliner for Friday night. Emailed him to ask what was going on. Got email back indicating that they were going with different headliners and that he didn't have control anymore because he was now part of a non-profit and it was decision by committee. In FL (thank you Sunshine law) you can look up the officers of any non-profit. Guess who the head of the non-profit is? Yep you guessed it. So on Facebook today I see the event listed (as a public event) and the new headliners are listed along with (wait for it), the club owner's band as one of the headliners. So what's the final tally?

Our band : International Blues Challenge Semifinalists (2010), Daytona Blues Festival (headliner), Bradfordville Blues Club headliner (voted best blues club in the nation last year by the Blues Foundation).

His band: Ummmmm, oh yeah, he's the club owner.

 

[mark norwine]

OK...club owners can be @$$holes, but let's review:

I had an agreement printed out for $500 that was agreed on over the phone.

He didn't sign it? Then you had nothing in writing.....hmmm.

He said, three sets for $375 and if the till hits $1,200 we'd get $400 (so we agree to go on).

I don't love it, as you can't verify his receipts....but, ok. You agreed to those terms.

I get the check the next day with a note saying he is only giving me $375 since he didn't hit $1,200 and that is what we agreed on.

Indeed, that it the agreement you made.

So I pretty much lost $125.

No...you got paid according to your agreed-upon terms.

He even made sure to cancel the other check.

That's just prudent business. Would you let your checks just "fly around the ether"?

Sorry to be so harsh, but honestly: I don't see your beef. This is a $hitty business we're in; his methodology is the norm, not the exception.

 

[antojado]

OK...club owners can be @$$holes, but let's review:



He didn't sign it? Then you had nothing in writing.....hmmm.



I don't love it, as you can't verify his receipts....but, ok. You agreed to those terms.



Indeed, that it the agreement you made.



No...you got paid according to your agreed-upon terms.



That's just prudent business. Would you let your checks just "fly around the ether"?

Sorry to be so harsh, but honestly: I don't see your beef. This is a $hitty business we're in; his methodology is the norm, not the exception.

Exactly. I don't play music for a living, but as an engineer I don't do work without a signed contract and a retainer.

 

[MikeNiteRail]

To clarify, I do have the email where we agreed, and it was referenced more than once by the both of us in other emails, that we were to be paid $500 for the date. Actually, before the third set we had agreed on $400 regardless of the till...and he did write a check for $400...and he did tell me over the phone he would rewrite it for $400. Again, I am not trying to burn him at the stake. I'd have never even posted had he not lied over the phone. The other stuff I can live with. Even if he lied from the start about $500 and knew he wouldn't pay me...I ultimately agreed to play for less.

But the check/phone call was enough to warrant warning other musicians. I did call and get his voicemail letting him know I have the agreement of $500 documented via email.

 

[mark norwine]

To clarify, I do have the email where we agreed...that we were to be paid $500 for the date.

Actually, before the third set we had agreed on $400 regardless of the till...and he did write a check for $400...

and he did tell me over the phone he would rewrite it for $400.

Ok...fair enough. (None of that was clearly stated in the OP)

You have a written agreement for $500 and you have a check for $375.

That's what small claims court is for.

 

[Shake]

How about clubs that refuse contracts. "Don't like it. Play somewhere else." For years, I always used a simple performance agreement. (Some places you could go on a handshake, and the guy would work with you in good faith.) Took a few years off of regular gigging, now it seems no one wants to sign an agreement.

 

[Dickie Fredericks]

So you have a check from the guy that is no good? You know, the one for $400?

I agree with Mark though. Its a tough business. Unless we know the club owner well, we dont do gigs without a signature.

Its true that no one wants to sign an agreement these days. However, Im not gonna drive my guys 500 miles to be stiffed and have to eat it.

 

[soulohio]

nobody wants to sign anything cause the mope working the club doesn't want to get sued when somebody gets too many beers in 'em, has a good time and slips on the way out the door on the way to tell the band they done good.

advice: you did yer public service announcement. thank yous very much. You got some pay. now don't play there no more.

 

[lhallam]

Sorry to be so harsh, but honestly: I don't see your beef. This is a $hitty business we're in; his methodology is the norm, not the exception.

So because others are unethical then we are supposed to just take it and not say anything.

That is a very dangerous attitude.

 

[Bruce Bennett]

To clarify, I do have the email where we agreed, and it was referenced more than once by the both of us in other emails, that we were to be paid $500 for the date. Actually, before the third set we had agreed on $400 regardless of the till...and he did write a check for $400...and he did tell me over the phone he would rewrite it for $400. Again, I am not trying to burn him at the stake. I'd have never even posted had he not lied over the phone. The other stuff I can live with. Even if he lied from the start about $500 and knew he wouldn't pay me...I ultimately agreed to play for less.

But the check/phone call was enough to warrant warning other musicians. I did call and get his voicemail letting him know I have the agreement of $500 documented via email.

if you had this email, then why didn't you wave it in his face when he started talking about 350.00..

Sorry but, YOU allowed him to change the contract verbally after you arrived... if you had said "You agreed to 500 bills and i have your email with that in it." and slammed the email down on the counter and told him either you get 500 bills up front before we unload, or we walk now and you have an empty bar tonight, AND I sue you tomorrow morning for the 500 you agreed upon in this Contractual Email with verified time date stamp.

thats how you deal with Club owners. like the ruthless bas****s they are. and better yet . get EVERYTHING both parties expect on paper in a written and SIGNED Contract, minimum 4 weeks prior to the gig. and band to be paid on ARRIVAL not after the gig. if they can't agree to that, then they are not worth your time.

no signed contract = no band. and make that VERY CLEAR!

I've been doing gigs that way now for 30 years and have never had but one dispute. and it was solved very quickly by our lawyer.

 

[Jd3]

***This only really applies to bands playing in Southern Minnesota. I don't have much course of action other than to share my experience with other bands so they can avoid such a situation.

Mike -- you seem like a nice guy. For $125 bucks, I think you got a FANTASTIC education for short money. If it counts (and if you need the money), get it in writing and stick with it. Most clubs are living on thin margins, and they will play hardball with all of their 'suppliers' (including musicians).

You gotta play hardball as well -- you can do it in a nice way, but if you start agreeing to verbal terms, you can expect more of the same results in the future.

 

[soulohio]

^^yep
The thing with le bizness is that you need to exercise and your biz acumen and work these situations to an equitable agreement, sometimes on the fly. It is helpful to know if there is a scumbag in the midst....but knowing how to deal with them is the most important thang... scream, holler and shout...no. work it out...yes. Sometimes takes all you have when you are working on presumptions...but still a valuable skill when you are in this for the long haul.

 

[Teleplayer]

When all is said and done (I hate that phrase, but it fits), you are bitching and moaning over $25. How much of your life, since that gig, have you wasted talking about this....."getting the word out"...... etc.?

It's $25; you learned a lesson, and now it;s time to move on. Alternatively, you can sue the dude in small claims court - since you have the e-mail. Conversely, you can spend a couple grand on a retainer and hire an attorney to get back that $25.

Trust me, you will make up the $25 somewhere else down the road. But you'll never recover the time you have spent noodling over this.

If this is the worst thing that has ever happened to you or your life, consider yourself a lucky person. Just my $0.02.

 

[MikeNiteRail]

Actually it was $125 (plus my overhead, plus the time away from my family, plus getting "suckered" into a third set, plus having to eat money that was going to my family). I spent about ten minutes today on getting the word out since I could copy and paste my post where needed. This is not the worst thing that has happened, but this place is seeking out bands to play there and I know there are at least several on this board who might head that way for a gig. I am not bitching so much as sharing the experience in hopes someone can avoid a similar situation.

I am not saying I handled perfectly, although I totally kept my composure on all ends when communicating with this guy, or that this guy was purposely being shady. He did, however, flat out lie about the replacement check, which was noted in my OP as the reason for sharing the info.

 

[Zero]

You know, as I was reading your post I knew what the outcome was going to be before I finished it. What a POS weasal.

I used to kid our singer/guitarist/manager in my old band but I'll tell you, he showed up to every gig with a briefcase with contracts printed out. I can recall one time there was a money dispute similar to yours and he came back and told us not to unpack yet as we might leave. We got the correct $ in the end. Another club, when we took the door, would underestimate the crowd so the next time we played there we had people stationed at both entrances with counters, and eventually at future gigs had our people taking the money.

Leave nothing to chance.

 

[teleman55]

Did he sign the first check with a pencil like Joliet Jake was gonna do in the Blues Brothers?
We played some place last year where we had an agreement with the owner, gig was booked way in advance, place got sold, new owner said he still wanted us, we did the gig. We get there and there is DJ stuff there too, so what. They're real nice, free food and beer, etc., and want us to play until midnight instead of 1:00 as originally stipulated as they've got a new late night dance thing. OK, we play, go over well, lot's of people, theirs and ours. Time to get paid. "We gotta pay you less, you played an hour less." "Your agreement was with the previous owner." Saw his place burned down recently, (wouldn't be surprised if he did it). Didn't make me feel bad.